Mono damping and spring preload adjustments

steveg_nh said:
Thank you, thank you! So I will measure the sit in test, and report back on that. I did look at all the paperwork and found a receipt from the suspension shop. It was for the revalve, for $150. I didn't see a specific receipt for a heavier spring, but in the comments of that same receipt it just said "Heavier spring" so not sure what that means. Perhaps it was another receipt, I'm reading it all wrong, or it's the original spring. I really don't know for sure, just what I was told. I measured the thickness of the coils and they are 13mm. Anyone know the thickness of the coils on the stock/regular spring?

Edit: My son helped me measure. Only a 10mm difference when suspended in air, vs when I am sitting on it. So certainly too much preload right now, correct? I can back the adjustment collar down to 1, and see where I stand, but that will be tomorrow night, hopefully. If that's not enough, or just enough, then certainly moving to another position on the c clip is in order.

I still have too much tension on the limiter strap right now though, so not sure if that effects the reading I just did.
Click to expand...

Prior owner must have bought the heavier spring and had the shock revalved for it. Pretty sure 13mm wire dia is the 6.5kg rate spring and stock is 10mm 5.0kg rate, so that along with just 10mm if sit in confirms it imo.
Should let the limiter strap out to stock as noted before, try the sit in again, but doubt it will make much of a difference.
Backing the ramp adjust collar off in the current clip position is not going to get you to the desired sit-in, so I think you are going to have to move the clip to get there.
At 180lbs you dont really need a heavier spring imo, unless you plan to ride 2 up. You may not get 40-45mm sit in even with the clip moved, but worth a try without investing in a stock spring. If the shock guy is close he may have a stocker laying around and would swap out springs, just a thought.
Have fun, Cheers
 
Apexallday! said:
Prior owner must have bought the heavier spring and had the shock revalved for it. Pretty sure 13mm wire dia is the 6.5kg rate spring and stock is 10mm 5.0kg rate, so that along with just 10mm if sit in confirms it imo.
Should let the limiter strap out to stock as noted before, try the sit in again, but doubt it will make much of a difference.
Backing the ramp adjust collar off in the current clip position is not going to get you to the desired sit-in, so I think you are going to have to move the clip to get there.
At 180lbs you dont really need a heavier spring imo, unless you plan to ride 2 up. You may not get 40-45mm sit in even with the clip moved, but worth a try without investing in a stock spring. If the shock guy is close he may have a stocker laying around and would swap out springs, just a thought.
Have fun, Cheers
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will loosen the strap tonight, and then measure again. I will back off the collar, but as you say, plan to adjust the C Clip. Once I get the spring compressed, what's the process to actually set at a different C clip notch? Does it turn, am I actually moving a clip (assuming so), etc. That's still lost on me. :) I read a bunch more and believe once I pull the spring back it will be painfully obvious what I do. And based on what you wrote before, to reduce preload, I want to lengthen the spring, so move to the furthest out (toward the end of the shock) C Clip groove, being position 1.

I'll pick up a bearing puller tonight (I assume one with a 3" max opening is good), and I ordered spring compressors for saturday delivery.

Also, wondering about ride height vs sit in. I read a lot about ride height, and seeing what it should be as referenced in the manual. I couldn't locate anything in the owners or service manual. To me you could have proper sit in height, but the wrong ride height, as too tight a spring could cause the machine to sit low, and still compress enough to achieve a 40-45mm sit in difference. Should I be worried about confirming ride height?
 
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steveg_nh said:
Thanks. I will loosen the strap tonight, and then measure again. I will back off the collar, but as you say, plan to adjust the C Clip. Once I get the spring compressed, what's the process to actually set at a different C clip notch? Does it turn, am I actually moving a clip (assuming so), etc. That's still lost on me. :) I read a bunch more and believe once I pull the spring back it will be painfully obvious what I do. And based on what you wrote before, to reduce preload, I want to lengthen the spring, so move to the furthest out (toward the end of the shock) C Clip groove, being position 1.

I'll pick up a bearing puller tonight (I assume one with a 3" max opening is good), and I ordered spring compressors for saturday delivery.

Also, wondering about ride height vs sit in. I read a lot about ride height, and seeing what it should be as referenced in the manual. I couldn't locate anything in the owners or service manual. To me you could have proper sit in height, but the wrong ride height, as too tight a spring could cause the machine to sit low, and still compress enough to achieve a 40-45mm sit in difference. Should I be worried about confirming ride height?
Click to expand...

The clip is basically a split spring wire that easily comes out once exposed, once you see it, its not difficult to move, most of the work is in compressing the spring. The system DGZRT shows above will work too if you don't want to go to the expense of buying something to use once or twice. Not sure what you mean by bearing puller, what were you going to use that for??
The ride height is totally a function of spring alone, it sets the suspension height, and the shock really just controls the compression and rebound motion, so the sit-in dimension is the sweet spot for the shock to work properly and is based on your weight on the sled. Too tight of pre-load or tension on the spring will increase your ride height, not lower it. After riding it for a while, you can always adjust pre-load up/down from there, and possibly re-valve the shock if it's not behaving properly down the road. Measuring ride height at the bumper is subjective at best, the sit in calibration is by far more accurate.
The other tip that I would give you is to suspend the front of the sled in the air and loosen off the spring pre-load/tension on the front shocks until the springs turn relatively easy, but not loose. This lowers the front end so the A-arms are close to parallel/level and will improve steering/handling greatly.

Can't wait to hear back from you after you grab a handful of throttle on this whip this season, as most can attest, it is addictive and will put a grin on your face you won't soon wipe off.
Cheers.
 
I plan on using the bearing separator/puller to grab the spring near the collar so I don't hit the shock with the spring compressor hooks. I found the tip in this thread by ReX (second post): https://ty4stroke.com/threads/06-mono-rear-spring-change-how-to.34671/

I love tools, and never mind have one off tools. If I ever need them again, I have them. If a buddy needs them, I have them. But often times I find other uses for them, like for this bearing separator, for other projects. Honestly, I wish I had this bearing separator when I was trying to get a rusted bearing off the upper boggie wheel axle on the skid a few weeks ago.

Regarding ride height though, vs sit in, don't I first want to be sure the sled is sitting at the right height when not sitting on it, and THEN adjust sit in height? Or are they so related, that you will never be able to achieve proper sit in height if ride height was wrong (it would either sag too much or too little)?

As for my front shocks, I have no coils. The sled has Fox Floats on them. I've already jacked the front end and adjusted them to 75psi as a starting point. :D

And yes, I CANNOT wait to ride this thing. My friend had one, and I loved it, and always wanted one. I tend to ride 10 year old sleds, so this is a "new" sled to me. I'm excited for the longer track, the 4 stroke, and the general lack of oil and smell.
 
Thanks. I bought a similar set. One end only has 1 hook, so a bit more streamlined. Now that I have some other projects done, and I'm reasonably confident my tunnel heat exchanger leaks are behind me, I can move my attention back to setting up the suspension. This week!
 
Ok, getting back to this now. First, the damping on the shock. I counted 30 clicks from full soft to full hard. Is that right? I had in my head that there was like 11. I just used a key (from BOP) plugged directly into the dampening port on the end of the shock. I just put it in the middle at 15 clicks. But every click felt the same. I expected to feel increased and decreased tension as I turned one way or the other but it was pretty much consistent. All normal and correct?

Then I went in to try to compress the spring, but had a hard time getting my bearing separator around it. I looked at the pic just now and see how Rex1 did it, so I gave it another shot and still couldn't get it to work. Bolts were too short. I returned all that stuff, and bought another spring compressor set with smaller claws made for these types of springs. Should have it Thursday and will try again to pull the spring back to move the position of the C clip.
 
steveg_nh said:
Ok, getting back to this now. First, the damping on the shock. I counted 30 clicks from full soft to full hard. Is that right? I had in my head that there was like 11. I just used a key (from BOP) plugged directly into the dampening port on the end of the shock. I just put it in the middle at 15 clicks. But every click felt the same. I expected to feel increased and decreased tension as I turned one way or the other but it was pretty much consistent. All normal and correct?

Then I went in to try to compress the spring, but had a hard time getting my bearing separator around it. I looked at the pic just now and see how Rex1 did it, so I gave it another shot and still couldn't get it to work. Bolts were too short. I returned all that stuff, and bought another spring compressor set with smaller claws made for these types of springs. Should have it Thursday and will try again to pull the spring back to move the position of the C clip.
Click to expand...

Should be good to go on the dampening, and no resistance is correct, all you are doing is adjusting a needle/seat type thing.
For your sanity, I would highly recommend removing the shock from the skid to compress the spring, saves a lot of dick pain!
 
Thanks. I have one more try at a spring compressor coming, it may work good. If not I may have to pull it.
 
Ok, I'm not having much luck here getting the spring collapsed to move the c clip. I bought another set of spring compressors with a much smaller hook. I was sure this would do it, but it's pretty big, so I only had enough room to get one on the spring. :( I tried to condense it but of course it was doing it uneven, and it didn't look good so I backed it off. I never did see the end of the spring that hides the c clip move at all though. But I really hadn't condensed it much. The hooks did touch the upper shock body too, so I didn't love that (just barely touched though). This is what I tried using.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0UT55Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So at this point, I feel like I do have to take the spring out. :( Really wish I didn't have to. But shouldn't havc listened to you Apexallday. I really don't (won't) want to remove the skid again to do this though. Is it possible to remove the shock while the skid is still installed? Even if I have to disconnect the transfer rod and stuff, that's fine.

Any tips at this point, or other ideas on collapsing the spring in place would be appreciated.
 
I'm actually giving serious thought to just upgrading to a Fox Mega Float in the rear...would allow much easier suspension adjustments when/if I let others use the sled too, which does happen from time to time....hmmm.
 
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