tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
im not saying there is a wrong way to get more fuel. many muscle cars do it differently, some larger carbs, some dual carbs, some larger injectors, exctera. the point is there IS a safe AFR to run a stock motor at or near 6lbs. however it gets there is up to the designer of the kit. I just dont understand why there isnt a standard that MPI sets for the gems to be set at. and if there is why are people changing it? Back on topic i believe a stage 2 MPI kit set up properly will be just as reliable as any out there. not saying larger injectors is the answer a 4th set up will deliver more fuel also and thats the goal.
Studroes144
TY 4 Stroke God
My gems has only been changed very slightly from the stock settings it's came with. Only adjustment I've made is just adding a bit of fuel at wot.
Yes both at 6 or just under our boost gauges did not read in thenths. There is plenty of room for more fuel on stock injectors at 6#'s
This discussion was started when Stud wanted to push his to 9 or 10. Over 8 there is not enough fuel to do it through the stock injectors.
Stock motor is 6#'s max. They are pushing them much farther on the dyno but in my opinion this is not the real world test and running 8 or higher with no head shim or lowered compression pistons is asking for problems. Knock or early detonation is a problem as pressure builds in the cylinders. The only way to counteract that is octane to slow down the burn rate that does not affect the AFR #'s.
And as far as a stock setting on the GEMS controller your kidding yourself if you think that nothing needs to be adjusted. Barometric pressure, Temperature, Altitude all play a part in how the fuel burns and how the air pumps into the motor. The colder the air the more hp it will make that is why the stage I with intercooler version makes more hp at 6#'s than the trail version. Push turbo with Water to air cooler will make more as long as the water is chilled.
There is a base setting on the gems but each install should be adjusted to the specific sled. I know my original waste gate at 6#'s of boost had no threads left on the rod and Tims had 5. Mine after boost gauge install was showing 4 lbs of boost and took all of the rod adjustment to get to 6#'s Tims was even lower but had much more rod.
This is a pic of the rod and jam nut when I first got the sled back from Hauck on the initial install.
This discussion was started when Stud wanted to push his to 9 or 10. Over 8 there is not enough fuel to do it through the stock injectors.
Stock motor is 6#'s max. They are pushing them much farther on the dyno but in my opinion this is not the real world test and running 8 or higher with no head shim or lowered compression pistons is asking for problems. Knock or early detonation is a problem as pressure builds in the cylinders. The only way to counteract that is octane to slow down the burn rate that does not affect the AFR #'s.
And as far as a stock setting on the GEMS controller your kidding yourself if you think that nothing needs to be adjusted. Barometric pressure, Temperature, Altitude all play a part in how the fuel burns and how the air pumps into the motor. The colder the air the more hp it will make that is why the stage I with intercooler version makes more hp at 6#'s than the trail version. Push turbo with Water to air cooler will make more as long as the water is chilled.
There is a base setting on the gems but each install should be adjusted to the specific sled. I know my original waste gate at 6#'s of boost had no threads left on the rod and Tims had 5. Mine after boost gauge install was showing 4 lbs of boost and took all of the rod adjustment to get to 6#'s Tims was even lower but had much more rod.
This is a pic of the rod and jam nut when I first got the sled back from Hauck on the initial install.
tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
so are you saying you adjust the gems throughout the day as you ride or a snow storm approaches? THATS NONSENSE. i have rode in 37 degrees during the day and 8degrees on the same night. never changed a thing. still ran great. i bought the hurricane kit to run without adjustments. its installed, set up to run and make 190 hp. i plan to run it and not worry about temp, barometric pressure, temperature, altitude, or wind direction.
tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
so are you saying you added the gauges and adjusted the rod yourself?
Yes !!!! how do you know got what you paid for without gauges? 4 #'s was boring and would not out run my pro X 800 and after $20,000 for a sled and turbo that was not as fast as my old rx-1's I wanted to know what was going on. I did not just go screwing with it, I called both Matt at MP and Hauck after installing the gauges and they both told me to turn it 1 turn at a time till I hit 6#'s. Hauck even told me he just installed the kit and never checked the #'s of boost. This is a stage I not what you guys are getting in the trail turbo kit.
tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
along with adjusting the boost you must have adjusted the gems accordingly. but if you would have received the kit at 6 lbs, gems setup, and running great (from hauck) you would have no reason to adjust anything, ever. that is the point. my kit was set at 5.5 lbs, PCV set. and ran great.
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Not saying that you have too but without gauges and having it dynoed how do you know what is going on? its called a 190 kit but does not mean you have 190 hp.
I ran all last year and never changed the gems controller but my AFR numbers did change almost a full point from 30 degrees to -25. The only changes that were made to mine were by Hauck last year and Ulmer this year but if I ride at 10,000 ft out west I bet you I will have to change it.
tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
agree i did notice my numbers change also but still not more than 10.7 at WOT. all sleds change with these factors boosted or not. if i change nothing and went to 10000 ft i should just loose a couple horse. to run at maximum hp all the time adjustments will need to be made. but thats when stuff goes boom. if i have a 190 kit and if it gives me from 175 worse conditions to 185 best conditions without making adjustments and runs without damaging the motor im fine with that. but this kit was dynoed at 180 hp at 4.5 lbs. so set at 5.5 should be 190. when the conditions are bad the other sleds will be slower too. what was the original topic? sorry studroes
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Yes you are fine!!!! and 10.7 is awesome. You know that cause you have gauges a lot of guys do not and are running blind. And by the way most of the stuff discussed here was in regaurds to pushing the boost up to 8 or more. At 10,000 ft there is less air so you will run fatter if your set up for low elevation.
When I first put my gauges on I was at mid 11's on AFR at 4#'s of boost (as set up by the installer). When I turned it to 6 #'s I dropped it off to Hauck and they adjusted the GEMS and re clutched it cause it was banging off the rev limiter. After the motor rebuild, Hauck set the switches for 7 and 9#'s and tuned the controller and the clutches for it and he was way off. The GEMS maxed out could not push enough fuel through the 3 stock injectors to get the AFR under 11.5 so I rode it only on 7#'s, seeing 10.5 on the AFR for fear of blowing it up again.
Now with the 4th injector I have proof on the track dyno at 12#'s I am at 10.5 in the shop. I have not run it on 12 yet on snow. I am heading out to the UP Sunday night to finally ride it with the proper octane in it to push it that hard.
When I first put my gauges on I was at mid 11's on AFR at 4#'s of boost (as set up by the installer). When I turned it to 6 #'s I dropped it off to Hauck and they adjusted the GEMS and re clutched it cause it was banging off the rev limiter. After the motor rebuild, Hauck set the switches for 7 and 9#'s and tuned the controller and the clutches for it and he was way off. The GEMS maxed out could not push enough fuel through the 3 stock injectors to get the AFR under 11.5 so I rode it only on 7#'s, seeing 10.5 on the AFR for fear of blowing it up again.
Now with the 4th injector I have proof on the track dyno at 12#'s I am at 10.5 in the shop. I have not run it on 12 yet on snow. I am heading out to the UP Sunday night to finally ride it with the proper octane in it to push it that hard.
tator
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
12 would be sweet! sounds like Allan has it dialed in great. i would be leery to push the stock fuel system (injectors, pump, regulator) past 6. with a current stage 1 MPI kit i think they add the 4th injector and not change to larger injectors. Not sure how push runs 8 lbs. but they did on the nytro too.
From Hurricane.
From Hurricane.
nick herting
Newbie
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2014
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- Yamaha apex nitro viper srx
hey can u or anyone tell me what the color codes do on the gems controller ? I understand there are 3 single and 2 dubble light codes ? is this the same thing hauck calls his fuel accelerator ?
Studroes144
TY 4 Stroke God
http://www.mountainperformance.com/Files/Download/Nytro Supercharger GEMS Controller Setup.pdf
This is for a nytro, but all the settings are described here in detail.
This is for a nytro, but all the settings are described here in detail.
nick herting
Newbie
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2014
- Messages
- 13
- Age
- 63
- Location
- palatine bridge
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Yamaha apex nitro viper srx
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