Need bigger injectors

[sheetwright]

Help! The Nytro keeps calling for more fuel. The lowest we could get the A/F is 13.5 even with the new fuel pump from MPI, and the Gem controller all the way up. MPI seems to think it is because the engine wasn't stock, and the extra cc's are asking for more. How much more Pat, Dave, or MPI don't know. Which is hard to believe since MPI said I could run up to 18lb's with all of the stuff I have, and work we did to set this up. Not that I was! Only wanted to be 10-12 on the trail. So these are the options getting thrown around. Use a set of Apex injectors which are a bit shorter but should work, or upgrade to MPI's injectors which are bigger(450 if I recall). Then have to take off the Gem, and go with something like the RB3 incase I have to take fuel away, or play with timing. Does this seem right at only 12lb's? The engine if I recall is 1153cc's right now. We have a larger sprayer on the Meth kit right now, but Dave thinks I should go larger, and have a sprayer into each throttle body. This will help with the cooling, and possibly cure the fact that Pat thinks she isn't getting enough octane for 12lbs of boost. Trying to run pump gas with Meth injection for the trail. Heck I have even thought crazy like what if she was at less boost, would I need less gas, hence less new parts, and controls? Maybe that is just crazy talk.
So now to fix the problem child. So much for the simple bolt on kit, and a new clutch setup Hard to believe a few extra cc's would create this mess???????

Had a Prologger. Wonder if that would of fixed the problem with it's mapping, or lean over the Gem controller??

 

[kinger]

This is easy to calculate if you know the estimated hp and current fuel pressure.

I use this link:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

Scroll down to the fuel injector worksheet.

That said I would think these guys know hp on these sleds they have all built faster ones, no one can tell you what you need that seems odd.

 

[sheetwright]

This is easy to calculate if you know the estimated hp and current fuel pressure.

I use this link:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

Scroll down to the fuel injector worksheet.

That said I would think these guys know hp on these sleds they have all built faster ones, no one can tell you what you need that seems odd.

I know! I think Pat was hoping for a stage 1 plug and play from me, with 50/50 race and premium gas. So this would be a faster install during his peak time. Either way all three are saying to add larger injectors and change the fuel contoller to make my own custom map. From what I found on Snowest from a thread with turbojamie, there is a problem with the stage two over the ones at sea level, and mac has some sort of fix. blocking the in tank pump return, adding the FPR to the rail (DONE), and then returning the fuel to the tank via an adapter plate sandwiched between the fuel sender???

Dave said he could make a map that would get it close, then it would have to be dialed in closer on the dyno, and track. Which makes since. Which is where I am leaning at the momment. Just waiting on the information on the new pistons before I give him false information. Looking for ideas. Since MPI said this is all strange. Get different responses from each supplier. Pat and Dave are thinking the same thing. Dave just seems to talk more to give more info to the Boosted Novis

 

[kinger]

How are you getting your AF? On a dyno?

 

[sheetwright]

How are you getting your AF? On a dyno?

He hasn't they have been taking out on short bursts on the track when the ground is wet.

 

[kinger]

Do you know the stock injector size? Mac's idea of increasing fuel pressure is a way to get more fuel, although maybe not ideal it should work. Be nice to know if its for sure out of fuel or if the GEMS is working correctly, no air leaks, etc

If you can ge the factory injector size we can estimate how much HP the injectors run out out and see if its close to where you are at.

 

[sheetwright]

Do you know the stock injector size? Mac's idea of increasing fuel pressure is a way to get more fuel, although maybe not ideal it should work. Be nice to know if its for sure out of fuel or if the GEMS is working correctly, no air leaks, etc

If you can ge the factory injector size we can estimate how much HP the injectors run out out and see if its close to where you are at.

If I recall in the 200's the, Apex injectors I was told are around 360, and the MPi kit was rated for up to 600HP at 450. As far as the Gem controller that is a good question. They have a new one there to try out, but can't try it til the rebuild happens.

 

[Srxspec]

The factory FX Nytro injectors are 324 cc/min. Apex injectors are 380 cc/min. Get ahold of TWIN TURBO on here. He has 430 cc/min and 550 cc/min (the 550's require some mods to the fuel rail) injectors available as well. I carry them also but am currently out of stock on them.

 

[sheetwright]

The factory FX Nytro injectors are 324 cc/min. Apex injectors are 380 cc/min. Get ahold of TWIN TURBO on here. He has 430 cc/min and 550 cc/min (the 550's require some mods to the fuel rail) injectors available as well. I carry them also but am currently out of stock on them.

Thanks Allen. You are so lucky I didn't go the other route with this thing. Trust me not a fun one. Hopefully some day I will have a boost smile

 

[kinger]

They are well matched for around 130-140hp.
550 cc will give you 270 hp ay 90% duty cycle, and 50 psi fuel rail pressure.

Big limiter on the nytros vs apex is the lack of that 4th injector.

If your on stock injectors I would say its impossible to get enough fuel, you would need 100psi fuel pressure and run them at full duty cycle.

 

[rxrider]

My friend is going from the stock Apex injectors to 495 cc injectors in his Powder Lites front mount turbo system running a stage 3 IC. All MCXpress fuel injection he ran earlier are gone. New injectors should be good for 350-400HP.

 

[sheetwright]

Here is the plan to date thanks from the great help from Mac, and Heath at MPI. Putting bigger 450cc injector kit on. Put on a fuel controller seperate of the gem if needed. Setup the kit at 110-112 octane without the meth on. Dial the kit in watching both water temp, and A/F ratio. Once it is correct 11.5-12.5 A/f ratio, and around 12lb's of boost, then run the meth. Which Snow says will be able to give minimum of 112 octane, up to 116 in some cases. Pat is also looking in to the boring out of the thread going to the hose on the Valve cover per Dave. The only other thing is the compression of the pistons. Pat and Dave believe low compression would be the way to go now that the engine is out, but MPI highly suggests not going lower then 11:1 on these. Wondering if the compression was to high originally being a stroker?

 

[Skydog]

Mine did the same thing to a tee!! Get a 2:1 adjuable fuel psi regulator and turn up the staic psi some! Then you will be able to add enuff fuel with the GEM. Make sure you are not boling the gas in the fuel rail. Mine was doing that and going lean after she got real hot under the hood.

SKydog P.S. I know you are running more boost and things are not the same but, just alittle info to look at....

 

[ultimate]

i have all of size you need,but for your application you need 400cc/min with fuel regulator 2:1!!!!

thats it!

 

[racinstation]

Sheetwright:

You need bigger injectors 450cc or more and an RB3 and you will be a LOT happier. I have set up all of my stage 2 superchargers like this with great results. Stock injectors you just start bouncing on the top end because of lack of fuel.