New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[getchuk]

The engine looks really good, I don't really get what people complain about getting a better engine(4s) for about the same price as a 2s,why you don't see as much 4 stroke on other brand is they don't have as many other applications to put them in, therefore they get more expensive, I understand some of the weight reasons most extreme pow riding competing with friends, but I guess it's individual what one would prefer.

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[vice108]

I sure miss my old buddy Turk

Me too Tom. Besides yourself, obviously, he was a real institution in our little community.

 

[Tony S.]

Dry weight has been used for at least the past 30+ years all across the board with Powersports. I've got magazines and owners manuals from the 80's with dry weight listed. It is far and away the best way to determine if a machine is heavy or light as a big gas tank doesn't penalize a machine like you see with curb/wet weight. When OEM's try to fudge the wet weight number they put on little gas tanks like they did with the Nytro.

I agree with you that the sidewinder will have the power to weight advantage over any NA 800. That's nothing new, same can be said for the 1100T and it didn't change the world. It is a point and shoot sled just like all the other turbo 4 strokes you see in the videos.

Regarding reliability I'm very comfortable making that assumption. The turbo Vipers have had recently issues with rods this season. Just look at how many more parts and pieces are involved making a turbo work. Every ride I've been on with someone with a turbo they end up fiddling with this or that. A factory system should be a step better but it's not going to be rock solid reliable like a Vector or an Apex. How could it be? Far more sensors to give issues, fuel quality, will belts last as long, is the turbo itself trouble free for 10's of thousands of miles? What's the next weak link in the drivetrain that shows up? Turbo'd don't hold their resale value for squat in my area. It always amazes me how guys sink thousands upon thousands of dollars into a turbo sled just to end up selling it for 40 cents on the dollar. They lose their butts. How many of you looking to buy a used car don't have second thoughts about one that came stock with a turbo?

Back to weight, I don't see how anyone could expect this Sidewinder to somehow be magically lighter than any of the other 4-strokes in their lineup? It's got more parts and pieces than a viper in the same chassis. The motor is out of the side by side, not an MX bike. If the Sidewinder was lighter and revolutionary they'd post the weight. Just like they did with the Nytro when it was released. You know the 520lb dry weight they showed on the scale for the RT-X while it hung next to some Arctic Cat 2S? And that same year Ski-Doo released the XP and the carbed 600 weighed 399lbs. I went to the Doo dealer that fall and picked the front of the XP right off the ground. I couldn't believe how light it was! In the mean time I had my brand new Nytro and could barely pick the front end up off the floor to get it on the dolly.

Here we are, 15 years into Yamaha's 4-stroke sled revolution and every new sled they've released since the Nytro is heavier than the one before.

What?? Wet weight i.e. weight of sled when a consumer starts the machine, and is ready to ride, is what counts.

 

[journeyman]

Member Journeyman was mostly correct on his prediction for ´17, based on some hearsay.
Problem was that the prediction also stated brand new chassi...and that was what I was hoping for most;-)
Sorry Journeyman, not your fault at all, you were just telling us what you had heard, and just told further.
Many thanks for that!!

Anyway, I think it´s great to see new engine-tech coming out from Yamaha, but with that said, it had been fun to see a new platform also.
A new fresh and up-to-date platform for future models, in the same way that the DB-chassie trickled down in vector-models and Venture-models.

As a long-time Yama-fan, I dont want to sound to negative, so short after release, but the feeling is not really great.
I just see in my mind, how the Yama-snomo-division sits there with this very small bag of money, and tries to figure out what to do.
They understand they can´t have everything, so after some coffee, they decide to put all the money down for a new engine-package, and then put away a little money for new plastics.
And so we got the SideWinder!
Basically, a Viper with a new engine-package.
Great for the hyper-performance crowd without no-doubt!...but, I suppose I was hoping to see some more of the future for Yamaha, and just with a new turboed engine I don´t do that...I´m sorry.

Thanks, I did post I was incorrect on the chassis somewhere in this deep pile of posts. I haven't even checked if my original post exists anymore. It may have been deleted. I actually refrained from posting details but a week before the release one of our old TY friends spilled the beans on Dootalk. I am not sure how he knew but much like myself he has as many or likely more inside connections as me. Don't ask who mine is though, I would never get him (them) in trouble. It could ruin a career.

 

[Murse]

Thanks, I did post I was incorrect on the chassis somewhere in this deep pile of posts. I haven't even checked if my original post exists anymore. It may have been deleted. I actually refrained from posting details but a week before the release one of our old TY friends spilled the beans on Dootalk. I am not sure how he knew but much like myself he has as many or likely more inside connections as me. Don't ask who mine is though, I would never get him (them) in trouble. It could ruin a career.

You've already said to much lol

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[watersuper]

Turk's generosity with his time was second to none. He was always there to help a fellow TY'er
with clutching, engine mods or share his vast wealth of knowledge. Still thank him to this day for all his help in the early
days, when 2 strokes exclusively roamed the snow. You're still missed!

 

[journeyman]

I really was expecting more HP if the initial 180-185 rating is true. i didn't expect a new chassis, but i was figuring in the 210 range for all this hype...

People get excited about HP numbers but realistically HP is the end result of a math formula. I like torque numbers on a broad rpm curve myself. But in all reality it is how you get that power to the ground through the drivetrain. A good example was the last several years of the turbo 1100 Cat. Sure it made the power at the crank but until they cleaned up their clutching it wasn't that great for the hp it was making. Talked to one guy with a brand new 1100 turbo about 3 yrs ago in Michigan that was on his 10th belt at $180 a belt....ouch!

 

[Nytros rule]

I can't stand Ski-Doo but I don't know if I can agree with that. They have a new 2-smoke doing 165 hp on what I would guess is a much lighter chassis.... seeing that Yamaha is not releasing weight or actual hp numbers..... and releasing a sled a new technology turbo 4-stroke that appears to have possibly only a handful of hp over what Cat put out 8 years ago? I hope I'm missing something because I'm really starting to yawn. New side panels look cool though!

When was the last time you saw Cat or Yamaha publish weights, or Yamaha publish HP.

 

[journeyman]

I like fx 10s point about the reliability piece of a turbo. I've seen a lot of sleds up north apart. That's the last thing I want to do on a trip. However I hope Yamaha proves us they are the best in reliability. Which they have for many years. Aside from some potential viper issues they have been rock solid. Hopefully they can show us they are more than capable.

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He did mention a turbo Viper vs reliabilty. I'd say take the time to look through the engineering on this new powerplant. They didn't just slap a turbo on an existing motor. Much of the internals are beefed up for this application. When it comes to motors in the snomo world there is no one I trust more than Yamaha to build a good one in my experience. Just sayN

 

[Nytros rule]

I think I'm in the same boat as Yamaha and Arctic Cat, I don't understand what people want.
You wanted more HP you certainly got it.
You wanted a roller secondary, you got it.
You wanted easier accessibility, you got it.
Now we are down to complaining about the price.
There is an old story about buying Oats.
"If you want good quality clean Oats you have to pay a fair price
If you don't mind something thats bin through the horse already, thats a little cheaper"

 

[journeyman]

Me too Tom. Besides yourself, obviously, he was a real institution in our little community.

Turk and I used to have private conversations about clutching. I still have our old PM's saved over in my 2s side inbox. Life is short, live it to your fullest!

 

[Team Lazy]

Someone said Sidewinder is a five year old chassis has anyone ridden it with a cat motor and how well does it ride handle?


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2 weeks ago I rode my 2014 XTX back to back with a 2013 8000RR Hibbert. They felt distinctly different, and we both kept saying it would be nice to have both. The AC was more like my RM250 on trails. Light, flickable, fun, but never settles down. Not like it was going to go astray, just that it seemed like it was holding on by about an eight of an inch of carbide and paddle. It was hard and wanted to go. The Viper is torquey, planted, softer.

So very same, very different. Completely unimpressed by the RR motor, like my Renegade 800 motor better.

I don't understand anybody thinking their particular model is the best. It's all a balance of compromises. The RR to the Viper showed that extremely well I thought.

 

[NBSledHead]

http://www.snowtechmagazine.com/2017-yamaha-sidewinder-first-ride/
http://www.snowtechmagazine.com/2017-yamaha-sidewinder-first-ride/

GREAT STUFF ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[1FastStang]

2 weeks ago I rode my 2014 XTX back to back with a 2013 8000RR Hibbert. They felt distinctly different, and we both kept saying it would be nice to have both. The AC was more like my RM250 on trails. Light, flickable, fun, but never settles down. Not like it was going to go astray, just that it seemed like it was holding on by about an eight of an inch of carbide and paddle. It was hard and wanted to go. The Viper is torquey, planted, softer.

So very same, very different. Completely unimpressed by the RR motor, like my Renegade 800 motor better.

I don't understand anybody thinking their particular model is the best. It's all a balance of compromises. The RR to the Viper showed that extremely well I thought.

How did each sled handle the really bumpy trails. Which one did ur back and knees like better? LOL I am thinking about getting an almost new Apex or Sidewinder/Viper. Just not thinking I can justify 12 to 16,000 on a new one.

 

[12meter joe]

Sounds like they did more than just stuff a turbo motor in it to me. Nice job Yamaha!