Well guys, better late than never. We have recently designed a belt drive system to replace the stock chain drive system on Apex style chassis. Some of the benefits of this kit are less rotating mass, less overall weight (no conclusive numbers yet but anywhere from 5-10 pounds), and the track dyno sheets shown below. The track dyno results were taken from an identical belt drive system installed on an SRX compared to the stock chain drive system. This system has been run and tested on high horsepower applications for thousands of miles with great results. Lets here some feedback or any questions you may have regarding this system. Thanks
Availability timeline?? Price?? Is it a turn key replacement kit??
ecopter
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Reverse?
APEX 06
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sleddog66 said:
X2 cost of the belt for replacement how easy to get.
Not a big increase in HP. I thought it would be a big difference.
sherlock29
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Chain drives can be quite efficient... with a high quality chain oil. you are saving on rotating mass. this would equate to the few extra HP shown. alot of High horsepower sleds will love the reliability of a belt... look at custom bikes with external primary belt... big blowers on drag cars..etc..bottlerocket said:
I guess why I thought there would be bigger gains sherlock29.
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I'd like to see pics of a production unit -- both uninstalled and installed. And on that note, how tough is the conversion? Seems to not be too difficult, but please expound on that issue. And lastly, availability and cost.
subaru2006
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One other good thing I can see is it would make track swaps easier maybe?? Would like more details sound interesting....
Subaru2006
Subaru2006
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I can't see the pictures, but the belt is a definate improvement over the chain. I assume the belt is using aluminum cogs and no reverse. Reverse gear robs power with its big rotating mass.
Essarex
Pro
I took reverse out of my Polaris Scrampler ATV years ago, way before it became popular to do that. My quad was two lenghts faster to 60 feet than others with like mods. The thing about rotating mass is that you have to accelerate it twice: once in a straight line and again around an axle. For a sled, ATV, or street bike, one pound of rotating mass is about equal to 7 pounds of typical mass.
ecopter
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I'll gladly give up a few lengths for the convenience of reverse and the simplicity as well as ease of maintenance on the machine. It ain't all about speed.
No more chaincase oil but you would have to watch the bearings on this side much more closely. Did you guys possibly incorporate a bearing seal with grease zerts for the bearings on this side with your design? Would be really nice if that was the case.
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I don't know what kind of price tag you are thinking but the other belt drive kit's I have seen are quite pricey for the gain. You should have some way of maintaing the drive shaft bearing or it will be a problem. Good luck!
I will attempt to answer all of the questions as it appears there is some interest on the kit.
As far as availability, it is completely dependent on the demand of this kit from you all on this website. This is the main reason why I posted the teaser ahead of time to see if there would be interest. I would imagine that if demad were high enough, kits could begin being shipped out in ~2-3 months.
The cost is another factor that we would like to hear some feedback on. One of the things that must be considered in with the cost is that you will be receiving the entire belt drive kit as pictured below, along with a new jackshaft and driveaxle. The jackshaft has not been experimented with using aluminum for a material option but the driveaxle has been tested as aluminum on high HP applications without skipping a beat. Our plans right now are to run a bored out steel jackshaft and a lightweight aluminum driveaxle inless the kit is to be run on extremely high HP application in which we will also offer a steel driveaxle for the kit. With all of that said, we would love to hear some honest/realistic price ranges that you all feel would fit this kit. We will obviously factor in the manufacturing costs to make the kit but your opinion on something that will free up ~3-6% HP to the track in most applications would be great to help generate a price tag. I must again stress realistic numbers for everything included in the kit and the benefits you are receiving.
This is a turn key replacement and the install takes noticeably less time than the standard chaincase on other models this kit has been run on before.
Reverse is out of the question with this kit. The whole purpose of this system is to remove less rotating mass and get performance benefits. Incorporating a reverse mechanism would benefit the goal of this system.
The cost of the replacement belts are to be figured right around $100 because they are kevlar custom belts. These belts are extremely strong but anything can happen when enough energy is applied to a system. I can honestly say that we have only broken one of these belts in 4000+ miles of testing and hard accelerations on a 150+ HP application. This was due to tremendous amounts of free track spin followed by zero slip traction.
As far as the HP increase, there is only some much power you can free up from the existing drive system. On those graphs, you will see as high as a 5-6% increase in track HP without ever touching the internals of the sled. Yes it is no turbo system, but this is targeted for the rider who is looking to get the most out of there sled. It will also lead to better gas mileage do to increased drivetrain efficiencies. Another form of proof that exists on this system is NOSPRO using this exact belt drive system on his Big Bore SRX Asphalt sled a couple years back and maybe he will chime in. If I remember correctly, his overall 1/4 miles times decreased 0.3 - 0.4 seconds compared to the stock chaincase system. We were shocked with these results aswell but hopefully he chimes in to prove that we aren't blowing smoke.
As far as the actual unit, housing pieces were actually cut out today for initial fit and the gears and shafts will be started hopefully within a month or so. When I have a kit completely assembled, Pictures will be up for all to see.
As I have said above, track swaps have been found to be noticeably faster when this was installed on other models. This is one of the benefits to the system along with no more mess of the oil
As far as the bearings go, they are all sealed bearings at the moment but incorporating a zert fitting would be a great addition to the system if at all possible.
Keep the comments/questions flowing guys and please help us out in determining the demand and cost of a system similar to this. Thanks
As far as availability, it is completely dependent on the demand of this kit from you all on this website. This is the main reason why I posted the teaser ahead of time to see if there would be interest. I would imagine that if demad were high enough, kits could begin being shipped out in ~2-3 months.
The cost is another factor that we would like to hear some feedback on. One of the things that must be considered in with the cost is that you will be receiving the entire belt drive kit as pictured below, along with a new jackshaft and driveaxle. The jackshaft has not been experimented with using aluminum for a material option but the driveaxle has been tested as aluminum on high HP applications without skipping a beat. Our plans right now are to run a bored out steel jackshaft and a lightweight aluminum driveaxle inless the kit is to be run on extremely high HP application in which we will also offer a steel driveaxle for the kit. With all of that said, we would love to hear some honest/realistic price ranges that you all feel would fit this kit. We will obviously factor in the manufacturing costs to make the kit but your opinion on something that will free up ~3-6% HP to the track in most applications would be great to help generate a price tag. I must again stress realistic numbers for everything included in the kit and the benefits you are receiving.
This is a turn key replacement and the install takes noticeably less time than the standard chaincase on other models this kit has been run on before.
Reverse is out of the question with this kit. The whole purpose of this system is to remove less rotating mass and get performance benefits. Incorporating a reverse mechanism would benefit the goal of this system.
The cost of the replacement belts are to be figured right around $100 because they are kevlar custom belts. These belts are extremely strong but anything can happen when enough energy is applied to a system. I can honestly say that we have only broken one of these belts in 4000+ miles of testing and hard accelerations on a 150+ HP application. This was due to tremendous amounts of free track spin followed by zero slip traction.
As far as the HP increase, there is only some much power you can free up from the existing drive system. On those graphs, you will see as high as a 5-6% increase in track HP without ever touching the internals of the sled. Yes it is no turbo system, but this is targeted for the rider who is looking to get the most out of there sled. It will also lead to better gas mileage do to increased drivetrain efficiencies. Another form of proof that exists on this system is NOSPRO using this exact belt drive system on his Big Bore SRX Asphalt sled a couple years back and maybe he will chime in. If I remember correctly, his overall 1/4 miles times decreased 0.3 - 0.4 seconds compared to the stock chaincase system. We were shocked with these results aswell but hopefully he chimes in to prove that we aren't blowing smoke.
As far as the actual unit, housing pieces were actually cut out today for initial fit and the gears and shafts will be started hopefully within a month or so. When I have a kit completely assembled, Pictures will be up for all to see.
As I have said above, track swaps have been found to be noticeably faster when this was installed on other models. This is one of the benefits to the system along with no more mess of the oil
As far as the bearings go, they are all sealed bearings at the moment but incorporating a zert fitting would be a great addition to the system if at all possible.
Keep the comments/questions flowing guys and please help us out in determining the demand and cost of a system similar to this. Thanks
