• We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.

New Heavy Duty/High performance clutching for My Sidewinder this season

STAIN said:
I have a TAPP primary also and find it to be very aggressive. I have @2000 miles on it along with a Pro-4 secondary. The way I received the clutch it was set up very heavy and the only way to make it work was to run monster secondary springs. I have gotten away from that and taken a bunch of primary weight out and changed the secondary spring. That being said I have working to get my secondary spring pressure down. I am struggling to find the PERFECT balance. Every time I seem to get close I run out of adjustment on the primary.
Primary is empty with +1 rollers and I am just shy of running 8900. In desperation I added 1 hole of twist to the secondary. I then started to slip the primary slightly on long 50-70 mph runs ( rail bed), one line in the middle of the primary face. 43-32 helix with Cat green spring. I am also using the TAPP blue primary spring---the softest. XS 825 belt with NO issues.
I am contemplating going to stock size rollers to get my rpm up then have the ability to run a softer yet secondary spring and have some adjustment in the front. Or put the secondary spring back and let it run.
The other thing I have yet to get my head around is the effect of roller weight vs. arm weight---is it the same? they are very close in proximity. I ask because I also have an issue where is it over-flashes off the bottom by @400 rpm before it settles back and slowly begins to climb again. If it where a regular flyweight clutch I would have some ideas but have yet to grasp where to place some of the weight in the arm yet or if it matters.
Testing has been hard this year with low snow and real poor ice conditions.
I will say that on the 270 SMT it is strong on the bottom and is a BRUTE in the midrange, very strong pull. I am just trying to make it as close to perfect/efficient as possible. I would also like to get a set up where I am not at the end of the adjustment, just seems like when I get close I am maxed out on adjustability.
Maybe I just think about too much!!!
Click to expand...

It's good to test and think about it.

With what I have found this season switching between, RX-1 and winder drive clutches, and viper and winder secondaries. I would suggest getting that stagger on the helix closer or even running a straight helix somewhere in the 40-36 range, and trying to run a Cat red/white in there. Take everything you can away from the front so you can get the efficiency back in the secondary where it belongs.

I know of a fella running 320 pump gas on the TAPP that has everything out of it and only using a Dalton Red in a viper secondary that was on the track dyno with it. I know for certainty they don't need or even want a heavy pinching secondary setup on them using the XS belt. He has all the weight out of that TAPP on the 320 setup to get it turning 9000 on the 320 setup. They just kept pulling weight out to get it right, may have even gone lighter on the rollers and arms too, I'm not sure. I was just told how much lighter it had to be vs. what the seller said it should be, and that was using the 8DN!

The 998 is not the torque monster like the 1200 Doo or the old Suzuki are and can not pull all the weight these guys are sending them with or recommending. They are coming way too heavy and the setup recommendations are just too high for the 998. Might be fine using heavy pinch in the secondary, but that pinch is really not needed on the XS belt for certain. Just something to ponder on.

Myself, I have the old RX-1 clutch working very well and superior to the Winder primary along with the stock winder roller secondary setup. I'd tell you to try the winder secondary with the stock 35 and Dalton black/orange on 80* V1 spring, and tune the primary to that setup on the 825 belt. Then if you want go back and put on the Pro-4 secondary and match it to that newfound primary setup. Its a known efficient secondary setup.
 

STAIN said:
I have a TAPP primary also and find it to be very aggressive. I have @2000 miles on it along with a Pro-4 secondary. The way I received the clutch it was set up very heavy and the only way to make it work was to run monster secondary springs. I have gotten away from that and taken a bunch of primary weight out and changed the secondary spring. That being said I have working to get my secondary spring pressure down. I am struggling to find the PERFECT balance. Every time I seem to get close I run out of adjustment on the primary.
Primary is empty with +1 rollers and I am just shy of running 8900. In desperation I added 1 hole of twist to the secondary. I then started to slip the primary slightly on long 50-70 mph runs ( rail bed), one line in the middle of the primary face. 43-32 helix with Cat green spring. I am also using the TAPP blue primary spring---the softest. XS 825 belt with NO issues.
I am contemplating going to stock size rollers to get my rpm up then have the ability to run a softer yet secondary spring and have some adjustment in the front. Or put the secondary spring back and let it run.
The other thing I have yet to get my head around is the effect of roller weight vs. arm weight---is it the same? they are very close in proximity. I ask because I also have an issue where is it over-flashes off the bottom by @400 rpm before it settles back and slowly begins to climb again. If it where a regular flyweight clutch I would have some ideas but have yet to grasp where to place some of the weight in the arm yet or if it matters.
Testing has been hard this year with low snow and real poor ice conditions.
I will say that on the 270 SMT it is strong on the bottom and is a BRUTE in the midrange, very strong pull. I am just trying to make it as close to perfect/efficient as possible. I would also like to get a set up where I am not at the end of the adjustment, just seems like when I get close I am maxed out on adjustability.
Maybe I just think about too much!!!
Click to expand...
I am running the heaviest Tapp spring, plus 1 rollers and 2 short bolts with one washer each at clicker 3-5 depending on conditions. Mine is set for cat width belt (XS829) on the STM secondary with the 43/32 and green spring. It's perfect in all conditions, no black on either clutch. I'm running the hurricane 300 header tune.
 
STAIN said:
I have a TAPP primary also and find it to be very aggressive. I have @2000 miles on it along with a Pro-4 secondary. The way I received the clutch it was set up very heavy and the only way to make it work was to run monster secondary springs. I have gotten away from that and taken a bunch of primary weight out and changed the secondary spring. That being said I have working to get my secondary spring pressure down. I am struggling to find the PERFECT balance. Every time I seem to get close I run out of adjustment on the primary.
Primary is empty with +1 rollers and I am just shy of running 8900. In desperation I added 1 hole of twist to the secondary. I then started to slip the primary slightly on long 50-70 mph runs ( rail bed), one line in the middle of the primary face. 43-32 helix with Cat green spring. I am also using the TAPP blue primary spring---the softest. XS 825 belt with NO issues.
I am contemplating going to stock size rollers to get my rpm up then have the ability to run a softer yet secondary spring and have some adjustment in the front. Or put the secondary spring back and let it run.
The other thing I have yet to get my head around is the effect of roller weight vs. arm weight---is it the same? they are very close in proximity. I ask because I also have an issue where is it over-flashes off the bottom by @400 rpm before it settles back and slowly begins to climb again. If it where a regular flyweight clutch I would have some ideas but have yet to grasp where to place some of the weight in the arm yet or if it matters.
Testing has been hard this year with low snow and real poor ice conditions.
I will say that on the 270 SMT it is strong on the bottom and is a BRUTE in the midrange, very strong pull. I am just trying to make it as close to perfect/efficient as possible. I would also like to get a set up where I am not at the end of the adjustment, just seems like when I get close I am maxed out on adjustability.
Maybe I just think about too much!!!
Click to expand...

Re roller weight v. arm weight, I had the same questions for Dave at TAPP last week. Dave said if it’s over-revving off the line, add Allen bolts to the arms. If it’s over-revving on the top end, add weight to the roller thru bolts. On two rollers I used 1.75” bolts and four washers. Trying to bring my top end RPM down. Will report back after I get some snow time, but it seems like you and I have opposite problems!
 
Tcat100 said:
I am running the heaviest Tapp spring, plus 1 rollers and 2 short bolts with one washer each at clicker 3-5 depending on conditions. Mine is set for cat width belt (XS829) on the STM secondary with the 43/32 and green spring. It's perfect in all conditions, no black on either clutch. I'm running the hurricane 300 header tune.
Click to expand...
I have been following your lead on most of the clutching with the TAPP as it seems you have the most experience with this clutch. I was debating lighter rollers or stiffer primary spring.
 
Tcat100 said:
Seems guys are starting spring for Tapp's. I'm up in the UP with my new turbo, just rode 300 miles last 2 days (I had the Tapp on my old turbo for 2500 miles) The Tapp clutch is awesome, that's all I can say. I now have a belt temp gauge and temps range from 140 to 190, and it's 40 degrees out. 2 simple adjustments to tune my new 300hp tune. Make sure you use the +1 rollers and I run a 43/32 helix in an STM (cat old school) secondary. I also run $100 XS belts which are fantastic. Love this sled with these clutches...
Click to expand...

Those are actually some pretty horrible belt temps. Please don’t be offended Tcat
 
Tcat100 said:
I am running the heaviest Tapp spring, plus 1 rollers and 2 short bolts with one washer each at clicker 3-5 depending on conditions. Mine is set for cat width belt (XS829) on the STM secondary with the 43/32 and green spring. It's perfect in all conditions, no black on either clutch. I'm running the hurricane 300 header tune.
Click to expand...

My TAPP is running with the Black spring, + 1 rollers and no weight(washers or Allen screws) in the through bolts, and clickers on 4. Pulls very good R’s on 240 and 270. From what I could see on the Tach, 240 was spinning 8750, and 270 was pulling 8850-8950. One time I thought I saw 9000 rpm.
 
ClutchMaster said:
Those are actually some pretty horrible belt temps. Please don’t be offended Tcat
Click to expand...
Nope they're real world, live-as-I-go, razorback temps on UP railbeds. If I drive on the twisties they are significantly less. Proof is that the belt lasts. 4500 miles experience
 
STAIN said:
I have been following your lead on most of the clutching with the TAPP as it seems you have the most experience with this clutch. I was debating lighter rollers or stiffer primary spring.
Click to expand...
I would try my setup before going for stock rollers. That's a major move...
 
Re-aligned and cleaned my clutches again tonight and changed the belt. Upon further inspection the line on my clutch was only on the inner face, and pretty faint at that. I still may order a stiffer primary spring, although I really like the low engagement I have for trail riding. My clutches now are just warm to the touch, I can easily hold my hand on both after a good run.
My thought on the lighter rollers was I could then add weight back into the arms and gain adjustability. I am REALLY close and am just nit-picking at this point.
 
STAIN said:
Re-aligned and cleaned my clutches again tonight and changed the belt. Upon further inspection the line on my clutch was only on the inner face, and pretty faint at that. I still may order a stiffer primary spring, although I really like the low engagement I have for trail riding. My clutches now are just warm to the touch, I can easily hold my hand on both after a good run.
My thought on the lighter rollers was I could then add weight back into the arms and gain adjustability. I am REALLY close and am just nit-picking at this point.
Click to expand...

So your running the arms empty like Wolf or with 6.7 grams like TCat?
Cat green at 60 degrees?
When I run the 46/36 (more like a 46/40) with the cat green stm secondary, I need minimum 60 wrap. I’m thinking I need to take more weight and twist out but my weights are already empty in the mid/tip. I’ve even ground the weights some. Just trying to match the secondary setup.
 
Empty arms. Pro-4 secondary one hole right of center Green Cat spring. 43-32 helix
 
Big_Phil said:
What are some good temp numbers for clutches and belt? I just bought a laser temp gun that Im itching to try out.
Click to expand...
Clutches around 100. Belt 100-140. Less then 150 on belt. Shoot inside sheaves on clutches. And the belt right in the middle where it’s not in clutches. The inside sheave of primary closest to motor runs slightly warm just based on location. I have been playing with a gun recently. I’m running around 100 on secondary and around 100-110 on primary. Belt is 140-145. That’s cruising and hammering the hell out of it. I still need to check on a really long hard WFO pull. Not many places to do this. But I’m guessing I will still be under 150 on belt.
 
Last edited:
Tapp empty arms click 3, STM secondary center hole green cat spring 46/36 helix, perfect rpm on Hurricane 290. Both warm to the touch all day long all UP rail beds 500 miles logged so far. Clutch is amazing.
 
SuperTurbo said:
Tapp empty arms click 3, STM secondary center hole green cat spring 46/36 helix, perfect rpm on Hurricane 290. Both warm to the touch all day long all UP rail beds 500 miles logged so far. Clutch is amazing.
Click to expand...
Which primary spring and what size rollers?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


Back
Top