no more studs ever

[Sasquatch]

Well I never ran studs till this year. Thought I would try them because of icy trails in Manitoba sometimes. Little rain more snow and spun to the ice corners to put you sideways. Not every corner just the odd one out of the blue. We get them in the spring sometimes as well. Lots of ice now from all the melting and 4 inches of snow on the way to cover it up tomorrow. Minus temps and yes I'm going to put as many miles on it as I can. Its why I bought and installed studs.

Contrary to LBs claim at 1,400 miles my idlers are fine. They look like new. You can steer the same as before. They do not make you go straight and not able to turn. 162 up the middle and the only time it did not want to turn all that well was on bare pavement getting gas. As pavement is not where I ride turning on it becomes a mute point. I can turn, just not sharply. I could turn no better without studs. I can also cross pavement without spinning. Why would I want to spin? That is hard on studs never mind pavement. Why would I want to go fast on pavement or rocks? Its a snowmobile! It runs on snow and ice.

Somehow LB I wonder if you have ever really tried trail studding. It sounds like you are thinking of a 121 with 244 studs sticking past the lugs a 1/2 inch capped off with a jack rabbit clutch and flat carbides. My experiance with studs is nothing at all like you describe. 162 up the middle with moderate penetration and I drive the same as before. Ease into the throttle ease out. Drive at a relaxed but spirited rate. I'm a trail rider not a racer. Although I do kick up my heels from time to time and get near the bar if I find a real long straight stretch and nobody on it.

This year I hit 1/4 mile stretches of glare ice in swamps with corners and did not slip one bit at trail speeds. The real test came a couple weeks ago when the groomer went out when warm and panned a 20 mile long trail into glare ice. It snowed on top of it about an inch or so. You might get up to 30 or 40 mph on the straights on this trail on a good day. The guy in front of me was sliding around bad. I did not even notice a thing different about the trail. Only noticed the sled in front of me having a hard time in the corners and spinning up the hills lots polishing the ice. Felt like a normal hard pack trail to me.

On the way back my buddy came down a small hill and started to slide at about 15 mph into a sharp corner. He lost it and barrel rolled half way through. He didn't get hurt and only broke a bit of plastic. Guy behind him was sliding trying to not hit him. I just touched my brake and didn't even skid the track. Biggest worry was the two coming up behind me. We parked past the upside down sled to leave room for the last two to escape if need be and came back waving arms to slow them down as they came over the hill. Ya slow them down from the 20mph they where traveling at. Trail was so slippery in spots under the fresh snow you could not stand on it.

Say what you will about studs but I will not go back to unstudded. I may take out an exchanger and be totally pissed. I may even take off my track because of the studs and replace it. But the next track will be a track like the ice ripper because after this winter I really like a studded track and how it handles ice.

I have way more control, way less track spin and can stop and steer where I never could before. I worry more now about people driving faster than me without studs. One patch of ice and they are on my side of the trail. Having a studded track does not mean you have to race. You can have a studded track and ride normal. Claiming studs make you unsafe is crazy talk. Thats like saying putting winter tires on your 4X4 and taking off the summers makes you unsafe on the road. We all know that is not true. Dumb drivers are dumb drivers, studded or unstudded.

Downsides are if you don't protect things studs will chew them up. I could loose a heat exchanger. I now carry a rad sealant for emergency purposes. Most always have a bottle of water with me. I'll make it out fine if not I always leave a game plan at home with my wife so she knows where to send the posse! 99.9% of the time I don't ride alone anyway.

 

[kinger]

My old man just put his in the trees because he slid all the way across a icy corner. Every other sled in front him was studded and we didn't think the corner was even icy.

Are they a PITA yes, do they tear up stuff if your stupid by spinning out at every opportunity yes, can they be ridden responsibly, add a margin of safety, and not cause excess damage. Yes. I will never ride non-studded but I will never stud a softer compound ripsaw or other track. Buy a predrilled track or stud the predator series and use double backers to avoid tears outs.

 

[Superman]

Contrary to what some people claim, studs are NOT a safety device. If you're driving fast enough that you can't control it, then you're driving TOO FAST. Nothing more to it. Studs CANNOT be relied upon to increase control as you need to be on something that they can DIG INTO in order for them to work, ie, they'll slide dangerously if you're on a rock or paved road.

Studs are actually DANGEROUS!
1) They reduce your ability to STEER because they force your track to keep going in a straight line, which reduces your ability to react in an emergency and avoid that maniac who just came flying around that corner and is pointed straight at you (who also can't steer due to studs and is also affected by point 2).
2) They cause a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY (see above) that can lead to people driving SIGNIFICANTLY beyond what is permitted by their skill and the conditions.
3) They can cause premature equipment failure which can lead to being stranded and/or dead.


Additional point to think about;
Studs cause damage to what you're driving on. Snowmobiles often cross roads, in most places, studs are NOT allowed on roads because they very quickly chew up the roads and cause a significant increase in maintenance costs. Snowmobiles are also required to STOP before crossing a road, which means that they need to accelerate when they get onto the road, which means a LOT of spinning. At every snowmobile crossing I see, there is a groove that gets worn quite deeply into the road. That means more taxes for everybody since the snowmobile tag doesn't cover the cost of road repairs. Thanks everybody with studs, thats just what I always wanted... more taxes to cover the road repairs.

I'm glad you said this LazyBastard. Exactly how I feel, couldn't have said it better.

 

[apltx08]

STUDS have their place, like ICE DRAGS or speed runs on ICE but not on TRAILS, we have a rail bed in our area and their talking of closing it down 'cause of f'n STUDS destroying the bridges decks!!! their built of WOOD and some asphalt sections the studs are chewing right threw, this rail bed is used as a bike path in the summer and users are complaning...can't blame in a way.

 

[Rockmeister]

I agree Sasquatch. Well put.

Studs make a MAJOR difference in control in Icy conditions.
Also agree with minimal studding.
(BTW FYI I haven't had a stainless stud break off in 3 years on my RX1, can't say the same for woodys gold series.)

I didn't have a problem in icy conditions, my friend definitely did.
I will put up with the low risk of putting a hole in my exchanger, as opposed to the high personal risk of barrel rolling.
A hole in my exchanger isn't likely to put me in the hospital, a roll and/or tree is.

As far as any idiot spinning his track on a road. An idiot is an idiot is an idiot, studs or no.

I have seen many carbide slots in roads this winter some as deep as 8" or so, and yes they cut the roads, yet who runs just standard steel wear bars anymore?

 

[AKrider]

I wouldn't mind if they outlawed studs in XC and sno-x racing. I've raced both without them and with them and I hate the idea of wrecking when you have studs.

Studs do increase your control on icy trails. Even then, I've never felt a need for them until I raced. The only reason I studded my track was because I lost too much time to the guys who were studded when I wasn't and there were icy sections on the course.

Oh, I should add, a thrown stud into the heat exchanger caused Chad Gueco to DNF in the I-500 this year. While uncommon, it does happen and I don't know what you can do to prevent that kind of damage.

edited for spelling

 

[Superman]

I have no problem with them. I used to do it. There is no right or wrong answer. I don't think they should be banned but I wouldn't lose sleep if they did. If somebody getting a fresh into the sport asked me I would tell them almost exactly what Lazy spelled out and give them the possitive sales pitch too. This is one of those no right answer debates. A different strokes for different folks topic.

 

[Vmax4]

I look at studs on a sled like running chains on my car tires. Yeah there are times when it might be nice, but all and all, I have been able to log many miles of safe riding all over the country without studing my snowmobiles. In fact I have never had a sled with studs in it. Just my personal opinion. I don't see them as a safety thing.

 

[LazyBastard]

I look at studs on a sled like running chains on my car tires.

Exactly. I keep chains on my plow trucks. I also keep 2000 pounds of rocks in them. They NEVER go on the road. Same goes with my ATV when I have the plow installed except it only gets 300 pounds.

 

[ahicks]

I have no problem with them. I used to do it. There is no right or wrong answer. I don't think they should be banned but I wouldn't lose sleep if they did. If somebody getting a fresh into the sport asked me I would tell them almost exactly what Lazy spelled out and give them the possitive sales pitch too. This is one of those no right answer debates. A different strokes for different folks topic.

^^^ me too ^^^

Just want to add that I've been running aggressive 1.25" tracks the last few years. I was told I might like to try one without studding for a bit prior to studding. I did, and was quickly converted. If I were running a 1" track though, that may be a story with a different ending - especially if I were going with a Predator or the like. Different application all together. Just me.

 

[welterracer]

I will NEVER run a sled without studs again

I ride aggressivly and they have SAVED my life when an icy corner comes up or a un expected turn

Everyone i ride with would agree with me 100%

I would however say this, On bare pavement they are MORE dangerous than not having them.. but of the other 99% of the time, they save lives when otherwise you would be out of control!

 

[pat the rat]

well,i fixed the radiator,my cousin tig welded it,there was 2 holes about 1/8 big,we had a heck of a time sealing it,it was creating pressure inside the exchanger and coming out of the hole,i had to take the coolant cap off and took apart a few hoses to relieve the pressure,it worked out nice.is there a way to fix the tear off in the track,if not is it safe to run like that

 

[theCATman]

How big of a hole?? Just the size of the stud backer or bigger?? If it's just the size of the backer, burns the edges with a propane torch & ride. If it's bigger, do the same, but the track will eventually fail. Not the next ride, but earlier than with no hole of course.

 

[pat the rat]

just like the backer,i will burn the edges like you said and finish the season,

 

[snoway]

Been unstudded for the past 2 seasons.
Put a ripsaw on the viper last year and the rage and vector also have the stock 1 1/4" ripsaws.
So far, so good. All 3 sleds went through icy corners this year like no other past seasons, very icy this year, BUT WE knew that so we planned for it right from the get go.
I was surprised that the ripsaw is not that squirrely on the ice.
I also like my skis to have control over my track in any and all conditions.
Even with sharp carbides on an icy track it was easy to keep the back end from coming around.
Thats my RW testing.