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OEM vs Ultimax

Doc Harley said:
Lol, I get it. And like you, I've always enjoyed using factory parts were applicable.
If your running a 240 tune with a basic 35° helix and Dalton B/O, and everything's straight. The 8jp will survive.
The ultimax is really more like an insurance policy with very little down side.
If you're really going to use that tune to the fullest, it's best to switch up to the XS825.
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After doing some research I can get the XS825 for only 10 bucks more then the OEM so I guess if the Ultimax is the superior belt then thats what I will be getting. Thanks Doc
 

KnappAttack said:
I'm not sure anyone can really say what the best belt is. I'm still trying them all myself. I have many 8JP's, 8DN's, Ultimax & Dayco belts. I have enough to last me the rest of my snowmobile life! My "go to" is the XS Ultimax myself for trail use as I believe it to be the strongest, but I can tune for any of them and have setups for any of the belts in on the list. I'll even swap belts for the conditions for the day along with helix and primary weight changes if the day changes much. If it warms a bunch, I'll swap in a 8JP as the compound is better suited to remain more consistent for the heat. I've yet to run the Dayco Redline, so looking forward to trying it too. Maybe it will react different and be the one to have, who knows. We don't get snow anymore to be able to put many miles on at all.

What's belt is better for say longevity, may not be the best for ET or drag racing, the best one for speed is going to be different again. Maybe theres one out there for strength that refuses to blow, but it wont ET or run speed. So to say which one is better..... Well better for what? What's the one thing your looking for? Because you can't get it all in one belt. Just not going to happen. One is always better at one thing than another. I aways ran different belts for drag racing than speed running, and there's a reason for that. Harder belts typically are the best for ET, but you need to pinch them tighter with different clutching. Some people think "sticky belts" are better for ET or performance, but thats not always the case. I've typically found hard & stiff belts best for ET, but you just have to pinch them harder, they are also more consistent with heat and temp range. For speed I like belts thinner and more flexible, but they just wont ET for crap. There going to be a tenth off at least on the timers.

Bottom line, what works best for one guy, is not going to work for another, also the clutch recipe or tendencies for one man is going to be better for one belt over another. Bottom line there is no magic belt thats going to work for everyone all the time. Only they testing on your clutch setup are you going to find what works for you, and I'm guessing no one hear really test belts on the timers or radar unless your racing competitively. At least then you'd have consistent and good traction and running conditions like Ice to keeping things consistent from run to run. Running in snow and spinning isn't going to tell you squat when making changes to clutching and belt changes.
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Yes I definitely agree Mike, sooooooo many different variables, riding conditions, type of riding, soft belt, hard belt , speed runs, mountain riding, etc. Thanks for sharing your input
 
XS825 works for me. Aligned clutches, 270hp, vary low/no dust, no failure. I run them about 2500mi.
 
On my new 2024 LTX the sled came from factory with 63.2 offset and clutches were hot and heavy belt dust after only 200 break in miles. This sled also had a 350 rpm over rev on what I would consider average temperature and weather.. Back shift on the lazy side.. In this case a Ultimax XS-825 might help that over rev but biggest improvement will be taking the offset to 58 .5 or right around there.. After that we are changing the secondary spring to a Thunder products orange which will give me the back shift Iam looking for.. This spring will probably not mph on top end but I don’t spend enough time going over a hundred anyway…. The sled is stock and intend on keeping it stock until I get bored or see a need for more speed…
 
Simplespeed said:
On my new 2024 LTX the sled came from factory with 63.2 offset and clutches were hot and heavy belt dust after only 200 break in miles. This sled also had a 350 rpm over rev on what I would consider average temperature and weather.. Back shift on the lazy side.. In this case a Ultimax XS-825 might help that over rev but biggest improvement will be taking the offset to 58 .5 or right around there.. After that we are changing the secondary spring to a Thunder products orange which will give me the back shift Iam looking for.. This spring will probably not mph on top end but I don’t spend enough time going over a hundred anyway…. The sled is stock and intend on keeping it stock until I get bored or see a need for more speed…
Click to expand...
Ya my offset is at 62mm, I was going to get 2.5mm shaved off to get me to 59.5 as that seems to be the safe amount to cut off as to not run the secondary sheave into the side of the sled . I even measured my secondary at full shift out and without the spring had about 3mm I could play with. How were u able to gain almost 5mm? I haven't done the machining yet
 
Good question ranger. I've had 4mm milled off of the secondary hub with no ill effects of the secondary making contact with the jack shaft arm bolts, but this should for sure be monitored. The older sleds wanted to be on the low side around 58.5mm but these late model Winders like 60ish mm offset it seems. If you don't take the time to mock up the clutches at full shift you should really pay attention to sheave marking and temps between inside outside sheaves on both primary and secondary.
 
fatchance said:
Good question ranger. I've had 4mm milled off of the secondary hub with no ill effects of the secondary making contact with the jack shaft arm bolts, but this should for sure be monitored. The older sleds wanted to be on the low side around 58.5mm but these late model Winders like 60ish mm offset it seems. If you don't take the time to mock up the clutches at full shift you should really pay attention to sheave marking and temps between inside outside sheaves on both primary and secondary.
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Ya mine is a 2017 so thinking I will take the shaft down a bit then. Will check it on the jack shaft with the spring out and at full shift out to see if it hits anything
 
Removing 2 mm washer, milling off 3 mm off shalf and will work fine as far as I can tell. Plan on running secondary without washer getting offset 58.5 - 59 mm when all said and done…
 
8JP lasted 1,000-1,500 miles on my tuned SW with the washer removed behind the secondary. XS825 lasted 3,500-4,000 miles with less dust, and 0 slippage.
 
I only briefly used an 8JP on my 2019 SW. When the sled was new I set it up with a fully floating secondary and 8DN belt...just like an Apex setup. I ran this setup for trail and snow drags for 3 completely trouble free seasons. The only downside on the 8DN belt was due to its longer length it was a little slower on top end, very minimal, as it does not allow the clutches to fully shift out. After a few 1000 miles the 8DN still looked new....just like on the Apexs.

Two seasons ago I switched to a Gates Red Line belt and I am still floating my secondary...again a few thousand miles of trouble free riding and very little dust.

I have a Razor belt temp gage, the 8DN and the Red Line run about the same temps.

Works for me.
 
Simplespeed said:
Removing 2 mm washer, milling off 3 mm off shalf and will work fine as far as I can tell. Plan on running secondary without washer getting offset 58.5 - 59 mm when all said
number1kyster said:
8JP lasted 1,000-1,500 miles on my tuned SW with the washer removed behind the secondary. XS825 lasted 3,500-4,000 miles with less dust, and 0 slippage.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a big difference!!! By removing the washer did the c-clip make grooves in the secondary shaft or not? Was thinking of removing mine also as my offset is 62mm
Click to expand...
 
sideshowBob said:
I only briefly used an 8JP on my 2019 SW. When the sled was new I set it up with a fully floating secondary and 8DN belt...just like an Apex setup. I ran this setup for trail and snow drags for 3 completely trouble free seasons. The only downside on the 8DN belt was due to its longer length it was a little slower on top end, very minimal, as it does not allow the clutches to fully shift out. After a few 1000 miles the 8DN still looked new....just like on the Apexs.

Two seasons ago I switched to a Gates Red Line belt and I am still floating my secondary...again a few thousand miles of trouble free riding and very little dust.

I have a Razor belt temp gage, the 8DN and the Red Line run about the same temps.

Works for me.
Click to expand...
Thats good to hear Bob, it is nice when there is a cheaper alternative that has longevity, runs clean and is cost effective. Thanks :)
 
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