oil contamination...

[connor wilson]

quick back story- bought a 2020 winder in October, off the original owners wife (he passed) the condition of the sled (extremely nice) the home and property to match, could only think it was well maintained and taken care of.

sled sat for a season or two ( inside) i get it home and rip the whole sled apart to fully service and check everything, when i changed the oil it had a metallic shimmer to it that you could swirl with your finger, not what i wanted to see but i bought a used sled is what it is... changed it and moved on

just got back from 1500 kms of riding in northern Ontario, sled ran perfect zero issues.

figured i would change the oil again to see what it looked like, and sure enough still has a metallic shimmer, no chunks or flakes or any debris you can feel with your finger, cut the filter open its also free of any debris. what ever is in the oil does seem to settle and the oil looks normal until you run your finger through it - i do have an oil analysis bottle coming to send it out to get checked,

it does how ever smell like gas and it does seem thin compared to fresh yamalube, im not ignoring the fact that it looks to me like this engine probably has to come apart to check bearing's and internals, but i would like to do some more digging before i tear it all apart, the oil level was slightly higher then i set it to at the last service, how could that much fuel get into the oil? leaking injector? i would think the sled would have a running issue if it had a leaking injector or two? only signs of smoke out of exhaust is black snow under the exhaust after idling in the same spot for a few min, which comparing to a couple turbo vipers i ride with seems normal. any advice is appreciated


thanks
Connor

 

[KnappAttack]

I see this a lot on newer low mile engines. The engine is fine. No reason to take the engine apart. Myself I absolutely won’t use Yamaha engine oil after seeing this more often than not. Use a good quality oil like Mobile 1 ESP 0/30, Quaker State full synthetic 5/30, or Pennzoil synthetic. When engines are nearer you will see more glitter. It gets better over time.

Also, if you don’t grab a sample mid stream as it comes out of the oil tank, the data is worthless. Taking oil samples from the drain pan is not the way to do it. How many miles on sled? Does it use any coolant?

 

[sideshowBob]

I agree with KnappAttack as well.
If it is NOT LOSING ANTI FREEZE...I would put in some inexpensive oil, run the sled for a short warm up, drain the oil again, change the filter, remove and clean the oil tank and oil lines. When reassembling the oil tank be very fussy sealing it back up to the chain case cover. The BOP oil tank gasket works well. Install a new filter and high quality oil.
When doing all this its a good time to inspect and service your chaincase as well.
If you haven't done the roll over valve bypass its a good time to that as well.
You had stated you just completed 1500 kms trouble free....so I wouldn't think there is anything major wrong with it...so I would definitely keep it simple initially hoping for a solution before jumping into major surgery.

 

[connor wilson]

sled just rolled 6300 kms, i deleted roll over valve, cleaned oil tank out when i bought the sled in oct sled had 4900 km in oct and installed BOP gasket, did all chain case up dates at that time also, i will take your guys advice and flush it and run i ect,ect and see how it looks!

also its not loosing coolant,

 

[Turboflash]

quick back story- bought a 2020 winder in October, off the original owners wife (he passed) the condition of the sled (extremely nice) the home and property to match, could only think it was well maintained and taken care of.

sled sat for a season or two ( inside) i get it home and rip the whole sled apart to fully service and check everything, when i changed the oil it had a metallic shimmer to it that you could swirl with your finger, not what i wanted to see but i bought a used sled is what it is... changed it and moved on

just got back from 1500 kms of riding in northern Ontario, sled ran perfect zero issues.

figured i would change the oil again to see what it looked like, and sure enough still has a metallic shimmer, no chunks or flakes or any debris you can feel with your finger, cut the filter open its also free of any debris. what ever is in the oil does seem to settle and the oil looks normal until you run your finger through it - i do have an oil analysis bottle coming to send it out to get checked,

it does how ever smell like gas and it does seem thin compared to fresh yamalube, im not ignoring the fact that it looks to me like this engine probably has to come apart to check bearing's and internals, but i would like to do some more digging before i tear it all apart, the oil level was slightly higher then i set it to at the last service, how could that much fuel get into the oil? leaking injector? i would think the sled would have a running issue if it had a leaking injector or two? only signs of smoke out of exhaust is black snow under the exhaust after idling in the same spot for a few min, which comparing to a couple turbo vipers i ride with seems normal. any advice is appreciated


thanks
Connor

You do mention "the oil level was slightly higher then i set it to at the last service" so this is something to pay close attention to.
Oil level should never increase. Along with this is, as you mention, also pay close attention to coolant level. Should not have "top off" coolant in the overflow tank.

 

[DennyTuna]

Do what those 3 pros ^ are telling ya. I will add just to make sure you are draining all the old oil even from the supply lines.

 

[KnappAttack]

Do what those 3 pros ^ are telling ya. I will add just to make sure you are draining all the old oil even from the supply lines.

Good addition to the conversation. I take these things for granted that people ought to know this stuff. This is exactly where the heavies and glitter are going to sit is in the lowest part of the supply line. I always remove it to drain as I'm always doing the chaincase at the same time with the pan off as well. It holds a great deal of old oil.

 

[connor wilson]

all great advice, its much appreciated.

i have a few new filters and some cheaper oil, plan to run it and flush it a couple times, then use the mobile one esp recommended above

thank you again

Connor

 

[sideshowBob]

Keep us posted on updates

 

[SvalbardSidewinder]

How’s this going?
I had a similar shimmer in my oil this weekend after the new gasket on the oil reservoir popped out. It dumped a lot of oil, but I think I only drove for about 10 minutes before I noticed it and shut it down.


I also had some condensation in the oil, but I was thinking that could be because it was cold outside and the engine got hot. When I drained the rest of the oil after getting the Sidewinder back in, there was still about 1 liter left in the tank. I was worried it might be metal from the engine, but nothing stuck to a magnet.

Mine has about 5,500 km on it — it’s a 2022 Sidewinder XTX SE.

I’m going to drain the oil and change the filter when I get the time, and then cut open/check the old filter.

 

[connor wilson]

i did what the guys said above, drained everything, filled it up with fresh oil and a new filter, ran it up to running temp and drained it, 2 times then drained the engine, tank, and removed the oil lines drained them again and cleaned them out, fillef it again with mobile 1 and a new filter, only got about 60 km on it since been busy, hope to get out for 100 km or so tomorrow and then will drain it again and see how it looks. i did get a oil sample kit from blackstone so i will do a sample mid stream and send it in regardless how it looks when i drain it just to see what comes back. good luck with yours. it dont look too bad from the pic

 

[SvalbardSidewinder]

i did what the guys said above, drained everything, filled it up with fresh oil and a new filter, ran it up to running temp and drained it, 2 times then drained the engine, tank, and removed the oil lines drained them again and cleaned them out, fillef it again with mobile 1 and a new filter, only got about 60 km on it since been busy, hope to get out for 100 km or so tomorrow and then will drain it again and see how it looks. i did get a oil sample kit from blackstone so i will do a sample mid stream and send it in regardless how it looks when i drain it just to see what comes back. good luck with yours. it dont look too bad from the pic

Thanks!
How did your oil look when you drained it?
I’m going to flush it and do my first drain at the start of next week, and I’ll cut open the oil filter to check it.

 

[Sevey]

Dont underestimate how long it takes to get these engines up to temp - to the point where they begin burning off moisture collected in the oil system due to condensation.

Was in northern Quebec once on a reasonably cold day (-15C), in the am after start up and running for 30 min up a rail line (which you would think the sled would be plenty hot) - i looked where i have the oil tank vent tube which i have discharge in the footwell area - was blowing puffs of moisture out even after that much time had passed.

MS

 

[SvalbardSidewinder]

Dont underestimate how long it takes to get these engines up to temp - to the point where they begin burning off moisture collected in the oil system due to condensation.

Was in northern Quebec once on a reasonably cold day (-15C), in the am after start up and running for 30 min up a rail line (which you would think the sled would be plenty hot) - i looked where i have the oil tank vent tube which i have discharge in the footwell area - was blowing puffs of moisture out even after that much time had passed.

MS

Yes, that makes sense, and I think that might actually have been what I was seeing.

After noticing the oil looked grey/shimmery, I decided to go through the system more carefully. First I drained the oil from the tank and filled it with fresh oil. I then ran the sled for about 20 minutes and drained it again. The oil looked pretty much the same as before.

After that I did a more thorough drain:

• drained the oil tank
• drained the bottom of the engine
• removed the oil from the hoses going to the oil tank

I also opened the oil filter to inspect the filter media and there was no metal in the filter at all.

I checked the oil with a magnet as well and there was no metal on the magnet either.

Because of that I’m leaning toward this being condensation/emulsified oil rather than metal contamination, probably from short runs and the cold climate.

I’ve now installed a new oil filter and fresh oil, so I’ll run it again and see how it looks after a proper ride!

 

[connor wilson]

Yes, that makes sense, and I think that might actually have been what I was seeing.

After noticing the oil looked grey/shimmery, I decided to go through the system more carefully. First I drained the oil from the tank and filled it with fresh oil. I then ran the sled for about 20 minutes and drained it again. The oil looked pretty much the same as before.

After that I did a more thorough drain:

• drained the oil tank
• drained the bottom of the engine
• removed the oil from the hoses going to the oil tank

I also opened the oil filter to inspect the filter media and there was no metal in the filter at all.

I checked the oil with a magnet as well and there was no metal on the magnet either.

Because of that I’m leaning toward this being condensation/emulsified oil rather than metal contamination, probably from short runs and the cold climate.

I’ve now installed a new oil filter and fresh oil, so I’ll run it again and see how it looks after a proper ride!

crazy to me how moisture in the oil can look like bearing material... my brain thinks too much i need to turn it off lol. i have yet to drain mine again but i only have put a couple hundred kms on since doing the triple flush lol.