OK, so I tried the Snowtrackers

[Daranello]

Geees I just ordered Bergstrom Triplepoints with Savers....did I just make a big mistake?

 

[kviper]

Mike i know they work on the factory ski's!, DO NOT! run any shim's with the Tracker's, It will lift the rectifier and totally loose the benefit of the rectifier being the leading edge and make it steer harder. The company says to run toe at 0. The way they work on mine i can't imagine you not liking them. I have done just about everything you have to eliminate darting (darting really wizzes me off also) ski's, deuces, dually's, shim's, setup,etc. As i said earlier i have no experience with the pilot's but the extreme Tracker's on the stock ski's with stock bumper's at 0 toe ELIMINATE! darting and are just a pleasure to ride. I wish we were closer, I would bring it over and let you ride my sled. Good luck and let me know what you find. kviper

 

[KnappAttack]

I didn't like the Bergstroms and savers on the pilots I know that. Pushed as bad as the doolys and had way more darting with the ski savers. No savers and the push went away and the darting got way worse. It's a balancing act!

I'm going to try and figure out why these aren't working on the pilots. I notice one not sitting square with the ski. It's rolled in slightly but still tight, I may have to bend it to get it to stand upright or even bent outward slightly. I may also take the shim from behind the rubber dampener. Also will go back to parallel alignment. I would really like to get these to work as others have described. I may also mount up my stock skis with the snowtrackers and give them a whirl. I just can't see that it would matter which ski I run other than the increased flotation with the 6.9's

Thanks kviper, I'm going to give that a try before giving up. I was just wondering about the shims and alignment too. I was typing the same time you were posting.

 

[jlemieu1]

I have the aligned the skis from parallel, and adjusted from 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" toe out. I've now settled on 1/8" toe out with sled sitting on ground, slight bungee pull on ski loops to take the slop away from ball joints.

Here is what I think. I really notice the darting and push to be a teeter totter effect. You can get rid of the darting but you end up with push. You can on the other hand get rid of the push and end up with darting. Now I know what one person thinks is no darting, ends up being another persons darting like crazy. Or maybe the conditions are different. This is one huge reason I believe we see the differences in opinion on these skis and carbides.

Heres a list of what I've tried.
1. Stock skis with single carbides (terrible darting)
2. Stock skis with Doolys
3. Stock skis shimmed with 1/4" rubber on heel & Doolys (Best at eliminating the darting so far)
4. 6.9 Pilots with shaper bars
5. 6.9 Pilots with snowtrackers
6. 6.9 pilots with Bergstroms and ski savers. (This combo still darted and really pushed)
7. Precisions with 6" in and out
8. Simmons with 6" in and out
9. The pipe mod mentioned in a sticky atop this forum. (not good at all)(sort of reminds me of the snowtracker rectifier piece)
10. Yamaha Mountains I have not run yet. (snowtrackers won't fit this set as 2 bolts are to short)

This is how I really notice this stuff. I have a very bad neck and back that should have surgery done. It gets very sore after a couple hundred miles trying to hold my head up. I'll do close to 300 miles a day if the sled doesn't dart. If it's darting, its hard to do 150 miles per day. Also have a bad left elbow that dosnt have much strength left. I need a sled that has NO darting if I'm going to go all day. I know, its hell to get old.

Every time I try a new combo in the UP, I end up going back to the doolys and 1/4 shims on the stocks skis. The darting really shows up on these trails, in these conditions for some reason. The Exception has been the 6.9 pilots. The last couple of trips I have left them on for the whole trip. The shaper bars allow this combo to turn nice but the darting is much more than I would like. The Last trip I tried the Bergstroms and ski savers on the 6.9's. This combo really pushed and although the darting was reduced, it was not eliminated. From the reports here about the Snowtrackers, I figured this would be the solution to be free of the darting and the push. But from this 30 mile ride I just had here now breaking in a new belt. I can see this isn't the resolution I was hoping for. I can only wonder if the Slim Jim from Woodys may help with the push from the Doolys. Problem is were headed out Monday so I have not time to place an order to try them out next week.

I really want to run the 6.9 pilots for flotation as they look decent and float on the powder very well. Problem is they don't make Dooly's, Slim Jims, or Deuce bars for them.

I have tried suspension setting changes and this does help, but only to a certain point. The key to darting and push is in the carbide and to a lesser degree, the ski.

Best non darting for me has been to add a 1/4" rubber shim at the rear of the ski rubber and run the 8" Woodys Doolys. However, as the corners get tighter, the sled pushes far to much. Don't have to worry about ski lift as you can't corner fast enough to get up on one ski.

I wonder if its possible to have to much heel pressure with the snowtrackers? I'm still running a 1/4" rubber shim on the pilots also. Hard to believe that would hurt it but maybe that is what that rectifier is for on the front of the ski. It's backwards of everything I've been taught and learned about darting. The pressure should be towards the back of the ski, not the front. Also using the stock 4" outside carbide on the Pilot, although it is a long way from the plane of the deep Snowtracker. Steering effort is fine, Just darts around a whole bunch more than the shaper bars did and weird as its sounds seems to push more. Don't know how this is possible the Snowtracker being as deep as it is.


kviper, do you run any additional shims (heel pressure) on your setup with the Yamaha skis? Maybe your right about not working on the Pilots. Hard to imagine though, as looking at them I don't see much of a difference for either setup. I didn't want to use them as I could still sell them as new for the Yamaha skis, but maybe I should give them a go. Damn, I have over $450 invested with shipping in both of these sets.

One more thing I should add is, the Pilots are the deeper Extremes 3/16" wide and 1 1/16" deep. The set for the Yamaha skis are 1" deep and 1/4" wide. I thought they were both Extremes.

Have you though of giving the CurveXS a try? They are already 1/4" shim in the new spindle rubber.

 

[BETHEVIPER]

500+ to get a 1/4 shim and another ski with a single carbide.

 

[KnappAttack]

I'm done buying Skis!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE SKIS FOR ME.

One thing this has taught me is the stock ski is fine as long as you don't want more flotation.

I like and want more flotation with the heavy sled. That is why I'm trying to make this work on the Pilots. I also have a set of Yamaha Mountains but the snowtrackers wouldn't mount to them. They have two short bolts and two long bolts on them. The two short bolts won't reach thru the deeper (.175") keel of the mountains. I have mounted the Yamaha snowtrackers to the narrow stock skis and thought about putting them on the machine. But before I do that I really want to see them work on the 6.9" pilots first.

 

[kviper]

Re: darting

Mike i have tried several setups i am now running stock skies, 1/4 inch rubber shim on heal, one accord? duely on the left ski, right ski stock 4 inch carbite, the duely is quite wide maybe 1 1/2 inchs wide between the carbites. this has no darting at any snow conditions, it does has some push, i still will have inside skilift if i push it hard enough. I dont know if it pushes as much as yours or not. I can live with the push i have can live with the darting. Jeff

Jeff if you get the extreme Tracker's make sure you remove your shim's, You want the rectifier's on the front to contact the the snow and meet the track's/rut's first. Kevin

 

[kviper]

I'm done buying Skis!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE SKIS FOR ME.

One thing this has taught me is the stock ski is fine as long as you don't want more flotation.

I like and want more flotation with the heavy sled. That is why I'm trying to make this work on the Pilots. I also have a set of Yamaha Mountains but the snowtrackers wouldn't mount to them. They have two short bolts and two long bolts on them. The two short bolts won't reach thru the deeper (.175") keel of the mountains. I have mounted the Yamaha snowtrackers to the narrow stock skis and thought about putting them on the machine. But before I do that I really want to see them work on the 6.9" pilots first.

Mike check my post about seven up you may have missed it. Kevin

 

[KnappAttack]

Yep, Got it. Will be going to 0 allignment and taking out shim from back of rubber on pilots tommorow. This is why I love this site. very good info, Thanks Kevin

 

[favarcat]

I run the studboy deuces with the Yamaha mountain skis and really like this set-up. Good flotation and zero darting.

 

[06apexrtx]

on the wifes vector i run the yam. skis w/ the shim and 6" shaper bars and it still darts real good. now i run the simmons skis(tried this year compared to stock set up) w/ the shims and have zero darting(or at least pretty damn close) w/ these w/ regual carbides. now my skis dont turn as good on hard survace such as roads compared to the shaper bars (which are great) but maybe if i have my new carbides onthe simmons they would be better. i still have the ski lift in both sleds though.

 

[SumpBuster]

I drilled and tapped a 1/4-20 hole into the plastic stock yamaha ski on our Vector, and put a bolt in up to the steel saddle, to hold in rubber shims. This way I can add til we are happy. One rubber shim (made from a power company rubber mat) and a more solid shim on top, from a corded rubber belt. Probably not much more than5/16 or so, but it is a flexible shim. This sled is a riot...no darting with brand new shaper bars, and very fun and controllable lift, yet good steering. Best this thing has ever handled.
Now the Apex has the curves with stud boy shapers, and it is the best I think possible. No darting, and extreme control. I'm not sure if top speed is affected, as the snow does have to compress as it goes through the center 'venturi', but I don't care..handling and control is what I wanted, and I got it.

 

[baggs66]

i was thinking of a fix for the duelly runners, how do you think they would work if you cut off inside runner and left about 3-4 inches of duelly at front of ski, would this stop darting and still allow single runner on back of ski to bite in for better cornering? i was going to try this with a set i had but bought a pair of pilots and am happy with them so far. just a thought what do you guys think?

 

[bigdog1000]

Weird..I bought snowtrackers for my stock skis and then bought mountain skis and they fit fine. Do you have 2 sets of Snowtrackers, one for the Pilots and one for the stock skis? I would think they would not be interchangeable as Snowtrackers are ski specific.
Take out your shims, put snowtrackers on stock skis (way better than dualies) and you will sell your pilots. Just my experience and 2 cents worth.

 

[SumpBuster]

I think from the spindle forward is where you get steering...also lift and darting. From the spindle back, you get push, but no darting. Try it. I can't picture what it would do, but at least angle the back so you don't get hung up on a trailer or something backing up.