phazer ability to spontaneously roll

[quadwrecker]

Hi all ,new to forum but have been reading a while here. Got a 2007 mtnlite for the wife, first ride today at 25 mph she flipped it, now is leary to ride it.
Also had my son with her on back. Some bruises but nothing bad thank gawd. Snow conditions here are slight crust with minimal powder under. We were riding on a packed trail , with about 4" of snow on each side , dead flat.
Looks to me from the tracks one ski dug in and caused her to go from side to side then flipped the sled. She is not new to ridding as we had doo doos and artickittys before. I also was riding my mtnlite and noticed a bit of ski dip. Any mods or suggestions what to do to fix this ,, or else the mtn lite has to go... well for her any way. Our snow conditoins here are mostly like that most of the time so know i really dont know what to do as I take my other younger son with me most of the time. Thanks and great forum

 

[Ricketts]

I know with my Phazer it really likes some body english thrown at it while driving, which I enjoy, but could be tiring to some people.

Last winter I was on a narrow trapline type trail between two lakes. The trail was made by a tundra or bravo type sled. I was several inches wider so one ski kept catching the outside edge of the trail and really tried to pull me in...I could see how that, coupled with the high center of gravity, could make for a bad scene.

Hope everything is well.

 

[cannondale27]

Yes I worry about letting others ride my sled.A mtn is even narrower and I would think requires a lot more hanging off.I am glad no one got hurt but might want to look at a different machine or at least change a-arms to stock FX or other Phazer arms.The Yamaha skiis are also aggressive.Not sure about the Mtn skiis though.Anyhow you want a less aggresive ski like a Pilot ski to help that grabbing feel but you pay a price for all these mods.It wont be the same sled but probably easier to ride.

 

[quadwrecker]

Thanks yes everything is fine except some bruises , wifes confedense to ride now. So will a pilot ski off a rev help? I priced out a arms from a fx and tie rods,, holy lick they are expensive, unless I could find some used ones. Are the fx s just as bad. And any settings I could make to make to make this better? like less ski pressure or what? Are the fxs much much better than the mtnlites for this situation? I still cant beleive it happened like i said very minimal snow, and I did read the other post on here before about this situation , but did not ever think it would happen in less than 4 inches of snow. Kinda a bummer 2 sleds in the garage which only one of us will ride now unless I mod it.

 

[meatman]

tippy

do you have your ski'sat the wide spaceing, you can move the spacers on the ski's to widen the front end. when i took my first ride on the phazer i tipped it over in the first 200 yards, 1 foot of powder. the ski's were set to full narrow. since then i have put simmons gen 2 ski's on and left them in the wide possition. LOVE IT. way more balance, my wife is a new single rider( rode piggy back a lot but didn't drive) and i am taking it easy with her and she seems to really enjoy the phazer.
thankfully no-one got hurt.
good luck

 

[blueironranger]

It's takes an active rider on a phazer, and good throttle control. Also, as stated above, move BOTH spacers to the outside of the spindles on the skis. This will get you out ~41" stance which is only 1.5" less than the short track sleds. If you don't plan on riding too much powder tighten up limiter strap from the middle #3 spot to the second shortest #4 spot and loosen up the center spring to the weakest setting. This keeps the weight transfer down quite a bit and keeps the skis on the snow. It's the weight transfer and snappy throttle that make it seem tippy. With experiance it becomes alot less tippy, I know I almost dumped mine a few time in the first 50 miles but haven't come close since.

 

[jlparker77]

there is a lot you can do to make it less tippy just by adjusting the suspension. Stiffen up the ski springs in addition to what blueironranger said. You can also make sure the sway bar is in the stiffest position. Yes they are adjustable. Definitely widen the ski stance as suggested. Also, flip the rubber ski bumpers when you have the skis off, this puts the pressure where it needs to be on the ski. Much less darting and a more stable feel on the trail.

You can make the phazer very stable if you want to. I would spend some time adjusting things before you spend any money on skis or anything else. You will be surprised at how much you can change the handling of it with just adjustments.

 

[QUADSCRIB]

I experianced the same type of issue and found my toe to be off,mainly one ski was pointed in...made for a very unconfident ride. Once I adjusted it out was NIGHT and DAY diff. Not to tell you thats the answer but I went from ready to give it away to (now that Ive adjusted it) not really sure I wanna do that.
I have to agree w/ ye C-dale, I done really wanna let people ride mine due to the same reason. I was HATING this thing but now loving it... not sure Im gonna off it.
Im scared to death to let my wife ride...BTW. I just got my brother into it and Im paranoid as hell of him getting hurt. Hope you guys figure it out.
Honestly I was originally amazed to find that the Mountain is narrower,I couldnt imagine mine being any narrower myself let alone longer AND narrower.

 

[quadwrecker]

Ok I relined the steering and toe in after the flip moved the skis out to max, seems better, but as far as the stabilizer or sway bar goes, which way is the stiffer setting all the way to the front of the machine in the brackets or all the way back ????? I would think all the way ahead would be stiffer but not sure. Next week i will take the one modded out for a rip then the one thats stock ,, so I can see the difference (nice part about havein two) , still have to do the rear suspension mods etc thats next.

 

[Canuck Sledhead]

Sorry to hear. Glad everyone is ok.


I flipped my Yamaha Apex at 50 mile break-in due to engine braking and sheet of ice under new snow (two 360 degree spins - made the first, but caught an edge on second).

Not sure if the Phazer has engine breaking, but that may have contributed.

 

[jlparker77]

stabilizer bar adjustments. Forward is stiffest. rearward is softest.

 

[Ridndirty]

Quadwrecker, Ive tried every trick in the book (susp. settings,sway bar,wider/narrower ski stance etc.) to make my mountain lite safe to ride on crusted snow.So far nothing works. The first time I ran into crust, I almost lost it like your wife, one ski or the other takes a dive for the bottom and you had better have a death grip on the bars or off you go. I think your idea of the pilots might be a good one. It seems like the keel is so deep on the mountain skis, that it cuts through the crust and then the rest of the ski follows it. Good Luck

 

[karl]

I rolled my Venture MP almost every ride for the first while, it had me on the run like your wife. I added 9" ski skins the first season and got familiar with the engine braking like Canuck mentions. I also softened the front suspention to lower the front end and center of gravity. Engine braking would brake skid the track in almost any conditions and spin the sled sideways. If you get into trouble and drop the throttle the ski with the most weight on it will try to dive. These are sleds you have to get used to, after that they are wicked fun - knock on wood - I haven't rolled it for a whole season. Another ski option are Simmons Gen2s, I have been using them for two seasons and have not found any conditions that they do not perform well in.

 

[jet101ski]

My phazer had the same problem on crusty snow, i put a sert of simmions gen I skis on it and problem solved! It is a totally different sled. The nytro has almost the same problem, It uses the same skis, hence the same problem.

 

[BombaPolaYama]

there is a lot you can do to make it less tippy just by adjusting the suspension. Stiffen up the ski springs in addition to what blueironranger said. You can also make sure the sway bar is in the stiffest position. Yes they are adjustable. Definitely widen the ski stance as suggested. Also, flip the rubber ski bumpers when you have the skis off, this puts the pressure where it needs to be on the ski. Much less darting and a more stable feel on the trail.

You can make the phazer very stable if you want to. I would spend some time adjusting things before you spend any money on skis or anything else. You will be surprised at how much you can change the handling of it with just adjustments.

If the problem of tipping was caused by the sled darting in crusty conditions, wouldn't adding more ski pressure also increase the problem in crusty conditions?