Phazer (Connecting rod failure??)

[cannondale27]

If the rod bolts fell out it is NOT oil related.If they broke then yes a spun bearing could break the bolts from massive play.If they fell out I am going to chalk it up to a freak thing.It happens on occasion that a worker doesnt do a second torque.I bet that worker wont be around anymore since that can be tracked easily.I do wish there wasnt third party info posted though.Get the owner to post or take a pic.

 

[SnofishersBuddy]

HMMMM, we've never seen this before.....Sounds familiar!

Anyhow, heard of 2 reduction failures, and 2 rolled and popped locally. Now if the engine shuts down when there's low oil pressure, how would that happen?

Are you insinuating that I am not telling you the truth?

I can tell you what every 07'or 08' Phazer has been in for. Most have been in for updates and oil changes. We also have had a few that have had the exhaust flex pipes break. No major motor issues as of yet. We have very loyal customers and I feel that it is my duty to stay on top of issues that could potentially cause them to lose riding time. The season is way to short to have their rides in the shop for repair!

 

[Isthatahemi]

I was making a joke. That's what my dealer says every time something breaks, yet by the time it happens to me, it's all over this site. I didn't mean to suggest you were lying, just not kept in the loop by Yamaha.
Thats why my sig is so bitter.....

 

[DaveRX1]

Rod cap's actually are held on with studs and nuts. Dealer says the "nuts backed out" most likely due to a rough damaged bearing caused by lack of oil pressure

 

[GypsyRoots]

watch youre clips that holds the air filter in place,they are known to rattle loose and end up in the motor,that's what happened to a friend of mine,i siliconed mine so they dont move

Hey Pat!
The dealer in Bethel removed the clips and re-installed them with a washer on the back side to keep them from slipping, as part of some quality assurance kit.

 

[cannondale27]

Rod cap's actually are held on with studs and nuts. Dealer says the "nuts backed out" most likely due to a rough damaged bearing caused by lack of oil pressure

Anyone else ever seen something like this?I dont buy it at all.The studs should break before the nuts would fall off.To break the studs the bearing would have to be almost gone to create enough force to break a stud.These are Babbit bearings like in a streetbike or car.Someone just didnt torque them to spec.

 

[SnofishersBuddy]

I was making a joke. That's what my dealer says every time something breaks, yet by the time it happens to me, it's all over this site. I didn't mean to suggest you were lying, just not kept in the loop by Yamaha.
Thats why my sig is so bitter.....

I think Yamaha tries to keep all dealers in the loop. It also helps if you are talking to RTA's and the regional tech rep. Those guys are the goods and they will tell you any issues that are arising and what the cure is or what to look for. The RTA's outta Wisconsin know their stuff and are great. My job would be a 100x harder without their help!

If your waiting for a tech bulletin, exchange, or recall from Yamaha corporate you end up waiting for awhile longer.

I do agree that there are many times I have to tell customers "I haven't heard about that yet or seen this problem." But in honest truth many times we do not have a rash of problems. Seems like if you sell 50 of one unit you may get the same problem on 1 or 2 sleds only since they switched into full 4 stroke chassis. Edit: except for idler wheels and bar warmers!

As for 4 stroke motor failure in Yammi's it has been dang near non-existent around here. I can count on one hand how many we have had apart since the 03' RX-1 has came out.

It's tough to tell who is joking and who is not. If I offended you with my prior comments, I apologize.

 

[Bakemono]

Anyone else ever seen something like this?I dont buy it at all.The studs should break before the nuts would fall off.To break the studs the bearing would have to be almost gone to create enough force to break a stud.These are Babbit bearings like in a streetbike or car.Someone just didnt torque them to spec.

Thats what I think too. Most likely someone just made a mistake and forgot to tighten them to spec.
IMO, if there were a design flaw, you would have hundreds of not thousands of Phazer owners with blown motors.
You think that if the rod caps were starting to come loose that you would feel a vibration or something from the connecting rods rattling around on the crank.

 

[DaveRX1]

Rod cap's actually are held on with studs and nuts. Dealer says the "nuts backed out" most likely due to a rough damaged bearing caused by lack of oil pressure

Anyone else ever seen something like this?I dont buy it at all.The studs should break before the nuts would fall off.To break the studs the bearing would have to be almost gone to create enough force to break a stud.These are Babbit bearings like in a streetbike or car.Someone just didnt torque them to spec.

This has been a minor issue with 2003 RX1's (I have one of those too). It happened to "Race24x" here on these forums. I truely do not think that this will be a major issue with the phazer (rod failure).

The current theory for a mechanism for rod cap nuts loosening is.... bearing suffers loss of oil pressure due to tip over or system contamination, bearing "wipes"- (a displacement of the soft babbit bearing shell material). The resulting uneven surface of the damaged bearing causes further low oil film pressure in the bering and excess friction. The resulting friction causes a slight distorsion and heat of the rod end and cap, this leads to stud stretching and loose nuts that eventually fall off and turn the motor into a worthless pile of junk.

To prevent this: Dont tip sled over when it is running and keep the oil clean.

 

[Isthatahemi]

To prevent this: Dont tip sled over when it is running and keep the oil clean.

I think that is generally the goal, it sucks that a tip-over off warranty could cost a couple thou......

 

[DoktorC]

To prevent this: Dont tip sled over when it is running and keep the oil clean.

I think that is generally the goal, it sucks that a tip-over off warranty could cost a couple thou......

If it's that worriesome just buy a tether switch...

 

[cannondale27]

Rod cap's actually are held on with studs and nuts. Dealer says the "nuts backed out" most likely due to a rough damaged bearing caused by lack of oil pressure

Anyone else ever seen something like this?I dont buy it at all.The studs should break before the nuts would fall off.To break the studs the bearing would have to be almost gone to create enough force to break a stud.These are Babbit bearings like in a streetbike or car.Someone just didnt torque them to spec.

This has been a minor issue with 2003 RX1's (I have one of those too). It happened to "Race24x" here on these forums. I truely do not think that this will be a major issue with the phazer (rod failure).

The current theory for a mechanism for rod cap nuts loosening is.... bearing suffers loss of oil pressure due to tip over or system contamination, bearing "wipes"- (a displacement of the soft babbit bearing shell material). The resulting uneven surface of the damaged bearing causes further low oil film pressure in the bering and excess friction. The resulting friction causes a slight distorsion and heat of the rod end and cap, this leads to stud stretching and loose nuts that eventually fall off and turn the motor into a worthless pile of junk.

To prevent this: Dont tip sled over when it is running and keep the oil clean.

Whew.Thats a somewhat plausible explanation.Thanks for taking time to explain it to me in detail.Thing I find wrong with it is none of the failure would happen instantaneously.A babbit bearing that is worn bad enough to cause heat like that would be making a racket that anyone would recognize.They are designed to fail slowly.Steel on steel the last layer in bearing and only one which makes heat would only happen in a catastropic failure or from ignoring the terrible knocking from a worn bearing not from a lack of oil or bad oil.Now if you tell me the bearing was spun it could be a sizing issue causing heat.Another process that humans must be involved in since it probably could have many different size bearings right from factory to get the close tolerances needed.But I am not hearing that.

To me its obvious that somewhere along the line someone failed to torque those nuts properly human or tool failure.It happens on occasion and no way to prevent that when hundreds of thousands of motors are being built.Two in same area or dealership may even be a issue where 2motors built consecutively had same error and were delivered to same dealer.Anyway its something out of our control and not worth worrying about yet.

 

[Equalizer]

I agree with Cannondale, in the event of a rod bearing failure, even a tiny amount of added freeplay would make a heck of a racket. To keep driving until complete failure is incomprehensible.
Almost all rod bearing failures are from lack of oil, wether they be caused by poor maintenance or from running for several minutes upside down.

 

[Bakemono]

To prevent this: Dont tip sled over when it is running and keep the oil clean.

I think that is generally the goal, it sucks that a tip-over off warranty could cost a couple thou......

If it's that worriesome just buy a tether switch...

Or just hit the kill switch when you tip the sled over. It makes me wonder though, what about mountain riders who will often lay the sled over on its side while cornering (I think they call it a, "powder turn").
Perhaps Yamaha needs to design an oiling system like what Honda has on their mini 4-strokes that the trimmers get. Ive got a Honda trimmer and that engine can run on it's side or even upside down all day long if need be.
http://www.honda-engines.com/mini.htm

A clever rotary-slinger pumping lubrication system keeps oil in a completely misted state and circulates it using pressure fluctuations generated by the movement of the piston. Built-in passages effectively return the circulated oil to the oil reservoir from every part of the engine, and an oil return port positioned in the center of the reservoir ensures that oil cannot accidentally flow into the combustion chamber.

If you click on the pic I posted up, it will show you a little animation that shows how the oiling system on a Honda mini 4-stroke works. Pretty clever, I must admit. I love it when people tell me that 4-stroke trimmers arent very good because they cant run upside down and then I pull out the Honda, turn it upside down and hold the throttle wide open. I just love to prove people wrong.

 

[Weapon X]

I talked to yam about this and they said there has been only 2 engine failures in manitoba and the one guy was modding his motor so really one that I know of has unexplained failure, its not often