Phazer/Genesis 80FI for mini Formula Car

[sortastock]

hmmmm i do somewhere, nothing I can link you to from where I'm at right now... I'll post some when I can!

 

[cannondale27]

Sortastock
Yes please!More details on pistons,valves and cams also.Did you guys check cam timing?Lift?Why do you think porting isnt worthwhile?Motor is coming out of mine this summer for mods and inspection.Really need direction and not much help out there.Are you in Brillion?

 

[jsteinm1]

So the fact that the WWU FORMULA SAE Viking 43 runs a Honda 600cc sport bike engine weight is 460 lbs and puts out 90 HP on restricted runs 14,000 RPM makes it irrelevant? Restricted to 100 MPH but it can run 0-60 in 3.5.
From what I been reading bike engines are the most common.
Lighter is not always better if you to light you will not get traction. Take running for example a 180 lbs person that has same athletic build as me can accelerate quicker then me on a sprint but I am overall faster. A 230 lbs person accelerates slightly slower them me and over all slower them me. Off course the spoilers wont help any at your speeds. Even in drag racing with slicks, HP, Weight, down force, all the other factors. If you are to light you tires will spin on the line and while down the track. If you coming on a corers and you spin the tires this will hurt you.

Just what I took from Wikipedia (and yes I know it not always creatable)
The engine must be a four-stroke, Otto-cycle piston engine with a displacement no greater than 610cc. An air restrictor of circular cross-section must be fitted downstream of the throttle and upstream of any compressor, no greater than 20mm for gasoline engines or 19mm for ethanol-fueled engines. The restrictor keeps power levels below 100 hp in the vast majority of FSAE cars. Most commonly, production four-cylinder 600cc sport bike motors are used due to their availability and displacement, however many teams have also used smaller V-twin and single-cylinder engines. Though it is permitted, very rarely do teams build an engine from scratch, such as Western Washington University's 554cc V8 entry in 2001.

I'm well aware of WWU, and you are correct about their car. The difference with them and the reason we aren't following them is because they have over a quarter million dollars sunk in that car with R&D and building it. We don't have that kind of budget, not even close. We're currently set at $60,000 with our budget, and are a first year team so we don't have the time/money to fine tune a CBR600 to 90HP like they do.

Sorry to repost, but yes, there are other pistons out there for the phazer. It can also be over-bored to about 540cc. And if you've got a little extra cash around, you can also get Ti valves for these engines. Be careful if you overbore, there is not much material between these engines to begin with.

I didn't have the opportunity to design new cams for it, but I think some significant gains could be had there. Yamaha didn't leave much on the table for porting, so we didn't spend time on it.

Oh, and this engine with a blower WILL break the tires loose! It's a blast actually. We had a hard time launching the thing because we had to keep the engagement higher than we wanted...

Good to know. I had read that the gap between cylinders is about 10mm on this thread, leaving barely any for boring, but definitely something worth looking into. Where did you guys pick up your motor from?

 

[blueironranger]

Well if you can use a blower, that changes everything. I blower could suck plenty of air through a hole to fully fuel charge the phazer engine. 60hp seems about right for a N/A phazer motor with 19mm restrictor. Spinning it around 8800 rpm is where the peak torque/max volumetric efficiency so it would be at Maxiumum Vacuum to suck air through the restrictor.

 

[sortastock]

Well if you can use a blower, that changes everything. I blower could suck plenty of air through a hole to fully fuel charge the phazer engine. 60hp seems about right for a N/A phazer motor with 19mm restrictor. Spinning it around 8800 rpm is where the peak torque/max volumetric efficiency so it would be at Maxiumum Vacuum to suck air through the restrictor.

A blower won't pull any more air through the restrictor, but you will choke it quicker, which is why we ran a centrifugal blower on ours. It pulled the more low end power up, but it didn't add anything to the top end, it could pull a little off the top end really, when you start thinking about efficiency.

We ran our own throttle body with a restrictor between the throttle and the blower, then ran an intercooler after the blower, then intake runners with the injectors in about the same location...


We ran our engine at about 11,000 RPM on race fuel. It seemed to work well, but I'm not convinced that it was the best rpm to run it at. We'd need more test time to determine that.

And Cannondale, I'll dig into my files to find the info on the pistons and valves.

Regarding the head; there may be some gains to be had with porting it. I'm sure there are some, but what I was getting at was we were not head experts, and we didn't see a lot of low hanging fruit with the head, so we left it as is, and moved on.

 

[sortastock]

Pics

Here are some pics of our car. I'll get some more pics up as soon as I can.

 

[Gabriel]

hello all, im from swansea university and we too have decided to try and run this engine on our fs car. not sure yet if we will be able to get this workign properly in one year especially as we would like to turbocharge it but will see

we usually use ricardo wave to simulate the engine so can design the intake and ehaust system. might any of you have any technical information not provided by the namufacture that would aid me in constructing the engine model? valve lift profiles, details on cams and pistons etc would all be wonderful.

gl to anyone else also trying to get this engine and cvt to work in their car