xc_phazer137
Expert
Thanks Motoman, I am willing to help anyone out. Becuase I know too that it gets fustrating! I dont have kids but. I think of all you Phazers Guys like My brothers. Priveeters in the snowmobiling industry. I give you all Props for trying something new.
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Props don't cut it when my Venture Lite breaks in my new SnoBunge by being used 15 times to tow me out of the deep stuff in a 1400 km trip. My VL gets magically sucked off trail into waist high snow because it's high center of gravity and tunnel overloaded with ice combined with no steering on ancient skis won't handle a little bit of powder. Tipped over at least 4 times in those 15 stucks, once flashing more codes than you could shake a stick at. Fortunately a Yamaha mechanic happened along and bailed me out. Next time I may not be so lucky, could've been stranded in the same kind of blizzard conditions we experienced twice on the trip.
Snowmobiles are supposedly designed to operate in harsh winter conditions and lives sometimes depend on that design and it's related performance or lack thereof. Even had the track and idler wheels freeze up while idling in a white out waiting for the wind to go down.
This sled is a real confidence builder in 2-3" of fluffy snow, NOT.
We experienced some of the harshest conditions on this trip that I have seen in all my years of sledding since 1969. I am now fully aware of the VL's lack of capabilities in various trail conditions. It is even quite tippy on a perfectly groomed trail.
I've seen more lost antifreeze from this sled than I have in my previous 10 sleds.
It's great to hear that some Phazer owners are happy with their sleds, heck I was even pulled out by a Mtn. Lite once last Tuesday. They're not all bad , but the Venture Lite and the Multi Purpose are definitely the most ill handling ice laden bastards I have ever ridden. I bought Yamaha because of engine reliability and there is no doubt in that dept., but if it can't be driven without fear of leaving the trail that reliability is out the window.
Snowmobiles are supposedly designed to operate in harsh winter conditions and lives sometimes depend on that design and it's related performance or lack thereof. Even had the track and idler wheels freeze up while idling in a white out waiting for the wind to go down.
This sled is a real confidence builder in 2-3" of fluffy snow, NOT.
We experienced some of the harshest conditions on this trip that I have seen in all my years of sledding since 1969. I am now fully aware of the VL's lack of capabilities in various trail conditions. It is even quite tippy on a perfectly groomed trail.
I've seen more lost antifreeze from this sled than I have in my previous 10 sleds.
It's great to hear that some Phazer owners are happy with their sleds, heck I was even pulled out by a Mtn. Lite once last Tuesday. They're not all bad , but the Venture Lite and the Multi Purpose are definitely the most ill handling ice laden bastards I have ever ridden. I bought Yamaha because of engine reliability and there is no doubt in that dept., but if it can't be driven without fear of leaving the trail that reliability is out the window.
Bird-Howdy
Newbie
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2
VL in 3'of powder? hmmmm javascript:emoticon('
')
Head Bang
')Head Bang
sorry for youre troubles,i see the vl has a touring sled made for groomed trails,not a powder machine,myself,i have a 07 gt and its been reliable for 4500 miles,no lost time with this sled and it is one of the best fuel economy sled on the market,i absolutly love it,had to put a bit of positive in this post
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
pat the rat said:
VL in 3'of powder? hmmmm javascript:emoticon('')
Head Bang
I'm sure Snoblowr can defend himself, but nowhere in his post did Snoblowr say anything about riding in three feet of powder - he said 2-3 inches. What I read was that he kept going off the trail due to the poor handling capabilities of the VL (been there done that), not that he was trying to ride in powder! It is good that you are having all kinds of good luck with your GT. However, before taking the time to try and discount someone else's troubles by assumming they are not using their sled where it is meant to be used; please take the time to read their post carefully first.
Thanks,
Isthatahemi
Expert
pat the rat said:
Well thats great. You don't own an MP or VL.....Also you are one of the fortunate few who haven't trouble, and aren't PO'ed about the poor handling, skis, and so on. What does no lost time mean? There are so many problems and updates, I can't believe your sled hasn't had any shop time!
Let's try to keep things civil, on both sides of the discussion please.Isthatahemi said:
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
VL in 3'of powder? hmmmm javascript:emoticon('')
Head Bang
I'm sure Snoblowr can defend himself,
Thanks, Bomba, you beat me to it. And yes I can defend myself. The RS Venture needs no defense, it's history speaks for itself. The Venture Lite and Multi Purpose are not even 1/2 the sled the RS Venture is. Try one for yourself or ask a new owner and you'll soon realize the reasons for all the complaints.
Don't dismiss or criticize our complaints until you've walked a mile in our snowmobile boots.
I did not buy a Venture Lite to ride in 3 feet of powder, I bought the sled to use as Yamaha advertised it : "Lightweight and nimble touring with incredible ride quality"; " Venture Lite advances two-up touring beyond bulky cruising yet provides Rider-friendly features designed around the needs of the long distance rider"; " The Venture Lite truly Re-defines the touring snowmobile"
I recently returned from a 6 day trip around the Gaspe in Quebec, 1400 kms. The snow conditions ranged from excellent groomed trails, hard packed recently groomed trails, up to 6 inches of powder on groomed trails, drifted snow on hard packed trails and blizzard conditions.
The ice buildup on the tunnel on these sleds is an aggravation by itself. When it is combined with the high center of gravity and the ice buildup on the steering components, in the boots and on the sway bar it is an accident waiting to happen.
In 1400 kms I accidentally went off trail 15 times due to frozen steering and loss of control, and once hit another sled. Eleven of those times I was just stuck, once hitting and breaking a trail marker post; and I let the sled idle while my riding buddies helped me out. In four of the incidents I was not only stuck but the sled rolled over spilling antifreeze each time. In 3 of the 4 I was able to hit the kill switch as the sled went over. On the fourth I could not get to the kill switch and the sled continued to run until the system shut it down. End result was more codes flashing than you could shake a stick at. Ultimately the boots on the FI had jarred loose below the airbox (there doesn't seem to be much to keep them in place) and a Yamaha mechanic happened by and got the sled running again. Only cost me a couple beer at the next stop. We would have been towing otherwise.
Snow spray from the skis enters the engine compartment and melts dropping down on the sway bar, boots and control arms. Additional snow spray from the skis accumulates on the wet area around the sway bar, forms ice and if ridden long enough in the same conditions forms a block of ice that restricts steering. On each of the 11 times I went off trail and got stuck I let the sled idle while we pulled it back on the trail. The heat from the engine was enough to melt some of the block of ice around the steering components, resulting in regaining temporary steering control. Riding further along the trail the ice built up again eventually resulting in loss of control and another stuck situation. By now my riding buddies are ready to abandon me and my Venture Lite, and who could blame them.
The steering updates don't do anything to prevent this frozen steering condition happening on a repeated basis. Some of the mountain trails we rode ranged from 900-2800 feet above sea level and trailside drops were anywhere from 100-900 feet straight down. A little unnerving when steering control is inconsistent on your sled.
This condition is dangerous and needs to be rectified before someone is seriously injured or worse.
The attached pictures were taken after my Venture Lite sat in my 50 F degree garage for more than 20 hours overnite Sunday and into Monday. The ice is packed in solid and obviously has a high degree of hardness to last that long.
Loss of steering control has so far cost me or resulted in 1 Venture Lite bumper, a Ski Doo bumper, a VL windshield, 4 pissed off riding buddies, countless beers to try and make things right, and trip delays.
I am sending this report to Yamaha Canada and Chris Reid. If I don't receive a positive response within 48 hours, I am contacting Transport Canada with a formal complaint and requesting a recall of all Yamaha Venture Lite and Multi Purpose 2007 and 2008 models sold in Canada.
Enough is Enough!
Head Bang
I'm sure Snoblowr can defend himself,
Thanks, Bomba, you beat me to it. And yes I can defend myself. The RS Venture needs no defense, it's history speaks for itself. The Venture Lite and Multi Purpose are not even 1/2 the sled the RS Venture is. Try one for yourself or ask a new owner and you'll soon realize the reasons for all the complaints.
Don't dismiss or criticize our complaints until you've walked a mile in our snowmobile boots.
I did not buy a Venture Lite to ride in 3 feet of powder, I bought the sled to use as Yamaha advertised it : "Lightweight and nimble touring with incredible ride quality"; " Venture Lite advances two-up touring beyond bulky cruising yet provides Rider-friendly features designed around the needs of the long distance rider"; " The Venture Lite truly Re-defines the touring snowmobile"
I recently returned from a 6 day trip around the Gaspe in Quebec, 1400 kms. The snow conditions ranged from excellent groomed trails, hard packed recently groomed trails, up to 6 inches of powder on groomed trails, drifted snow on hard packed trails and blizzard conditions.
The ice buildup on the tunnel on these sleds is an aggravation by itself. When it is combined with the high center of gravity and the ice buildup on the steering components, in the boots and on the sway bar it is an accident waiting to happen.
In 1400 kms I accidentally went off trail 15 times due to frozen steering and loss of control, and once hit another sled. Eleven of those times I was just stuck, once hitting and breaking a trail marker post; and I let the sled idle while my riding buddies helped me out. In four of the incidents I was not only stuck but the sled rolled over spilling antifreeze each time. In 3 of the 4 I was able to hit the kill switch as the sled went over. On the fourth I could not get to the kill switch and the sled continued to run until the system shut it down. End result was more codes flashing than you could shake a stick at. Ultimately the boots on the FI had jarred loose below the airbox (there doesn't seem to be much to keep them in place) and a Yamaha mechanic happened by and got the sled running again. Only cost me a couple beer at the next stop. We would have been towing otherwise.
Snow spray from the skis enters the engine compartment and melts dropping down on the sway bar, boots and control arms. Additional snow spray from the skis accumulates on the wet area around the sway bar, forms ice and if ridden long enough in the same conditions forms a block of ice that restricts steering. On each of the 11 times I went off trail and got stuck I let the sled idle while we pulled it back on the trail. The heat from the engine was enough to melt some of the block of ice around the steering components, resulting in regaining temporary steering control. Riding further along the trail the ice built up again eventually resulting in loss of control and another stuck situation. By now my riding buddies are ready to abandon me and my Venture Lite, and who could blame them.
The steering updates don't do anything to prevent this frozen steering condition happening on a repeated basis. Some of the mountain trails we rode ranged from 900-2800 feet above sea level and trailside drops were anywhere from 100-900 feet straight down. A little unnerving when steering control is inconsistent on your sled.
This condition is dangerous and needs to be rectified before someone is seriously injured or worse.
The attached pictures were taken after my Venture Lite sat in my 50 F degree garage for more than 20 hours overnite Sunday and into Monday. The ice is packed in solid and obviously has a high degree of hardness to last that long.
Loss of steering control has so far cost me or resulted in 1 Venture Lite bumper, a Ski Doo bumper, a VL windshield, 4 pissed off riding buddies, countless beers to try and make things right, and trip delays.
I am sending this report to Yamaha Canada and Chris Reid. If I don't receive a positive response within 48 hours, I am contacting Transport Canada with a formal complaint and requesting a recall of all Yamaha Venture Lite and Multi Purpose 2007 and 2008 models sold in Canada.
Enough is Enough!
Attachments
Isthatahemi
Expert
Transport Canada already has a file for the steering, but has yet to log any accidents. They also have an open file on the tunnel icing, but Yamaha has disputed the tunnel icing, saying their plastic side panels are a fix. They do not intend to do any improvements with regards to either, unless they get more complaints.
Isthatahemi
Expert
Further to our original correspondence, we have entered the information you have provided into our public complaints information system as # IC20070533. Transport Canada is aware of this problem and is in contact with the manufacturer. We have reports of one (1) similar complaint. At this time the problem may be considered a design deficiency, but not a Safety Related Defect as defined within the confines of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, (MVSA). Transport Canada is monitoring this situation.
We provide the following additional information and explanation:
Transport Canada administers the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. This act provides that if a vehicle manufacturer becomes aware of a defect that may affect the safe operation of a motor vehicle, they are required by this Act and Canadian law to notify the Minister of Transport, and the owners of the affected vehicles that a Safety Related Defect exists. The defect must occur without any prior warning to the vehicle operator, and affect a certain identifiable group or class of vehicles.
There is no requirement in the Act that the vehicle manufacturer pay for the cost of repairs. Once warning to the operator is provided, it is the vehicle operator's responsibility to take the necessary steps to have the vehicle repaired. Depending on warranty considerations, the age and kilometerage, most manufacturers cover these costs as a consumer or customer satisfaction concern.
The Act encompasses new Motor Vehicles at the manufacturing level only, and does not include any aftermarket parts, accessories and / or modifications. Aftermarket parts accessories and their installation, including regulation of dealerships, garages, service technicians and mechanics, is the domain of provincial and territorial authorities.
If a manufacturer provides extended warranty on certain components, or issues a service bulletin addressing a certain problem, it does not necessarily indicate a Safety Related Defect. The component could wear out prematurely in a mode that will not compromise vehicle safety as prescribed in the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. For example, if a seat belt locks up in a retracted position, it can not be used, the vehicle operator is immediately aware, and the problem can not normally be considered a Safety Related Defect.
Transport Canada cannot negotiate with a vehicle manufacturer on behalf of individual consumers with respect to any warranty and financial concerns and /or disputes. This is the responsibility of provincial consumer agencies, organizations and /or groups, or the courts.
Trusting we have provided the information you require.
Yours truly,
Recall and Defects | Rappel et Défauts
613) 993 9851 - (800) 333-0510
TTY / ATS (613) 990-4500
facsimile / télécopieur (613) 991-5802
Transport Canada | Transports Canada, ASFAD
2780 Chemin Sheffield Road, Ottawa ON K1B 3V9
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada
We provide the following additional information and explanation:
Transport Canada administers the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. This act provides that if a vehicle manufacturer becomes aware of a defect that may affect the safe operation of a motor vehicle, they are required by this Act and Canadian law to notify the Minister of Transport, and the owners of the affected vehicles that a Safety Related Defect exists. The defect must occur without any prior warning to the vehicle operator, and affect a certain identifiable group or class of vehicles.
There is no requirement in the Act that the vehicle manufacturer pay for the cost of repairs. Once warning to the operator is provided, it is the vehicle operator's responsibility to take the necessary steps to have the vehicle repaired. Depending on warranty considerations, the age and kilometerage, most manufacturers cover these costs as a consumer or customer satisfaction concern.
The Act encompasses new Motor Vehicles at the manufacturing level only, and does not include any aftermarket parts, accessories and / or modifications. Aftermarket parts accessories and their installation, including regulation of dealerships, garages, service technicians and mechanics, is the domain of provincial and territorial authorities.
If a manufacturer provides extended warranty on certain components, or issues a service bulletin addressing a certain problem, it does not necessarily indicate a Safety Related Defect. The component could wear out prematurely in a mode that will not compromise vehicle safety as prescribed in the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. For example, if a seat belt locks up in a retracted position, it can not be used, the vehicle operator is immediately aware, and the problem can not normally be considered a Safety Related Defect.
Transport Canada cannot negotiate with a vehicle manufacturer on behalf of individual consumers with respect to any warranty and financial concerns and /or disputes. This is the responsibility of provincial consumer agencies, organizations and /or groups, or the courts.
Trusting we have provided the information you require.
Yours truly,
Recall and Defects | Rappel et Défauts
613) 993 9851 - (800) 333-0510
TTY / ATS (613) 990-4500
facsimile / télécopieur (613) 991-5802
Transport Canada | Transports Canada, ASFAD
2780 Chemin Sheffield Road, Ottawa ON K1B 3V9
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Isthatahemi, Duly noted, your complaint is for the Phazer and mine is for the
Venture Lite which will be the second model affected. A Multi Purpose would
be the third model affected. See a pattern yet?
Venture Lite which will be the second model affected. A Multi Purpose would
be the third model affected. See a pattern yet?
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
Isthatahemi said:
Isthatahemi,
I guess you are referring to the Phazer with the plastic side panel? Do you have an email address for TC so that others can send pics of tunnel icing and steering problems?
BTW Snoblowr, excellent analysis of your troubles, too bad your trip was plagued by so many problems caused by the Yamaha VL design issues. That type of situation would be downright embarrassing to me if my machine caused that much aggravation to my riding buddies. Did you have any oil leaking out through the airbox when it was tipped over? So if it is tipped over, is the best thing to do to shut it off to prevent the coolant leaking? I'm just trying to figure out what to do when that eventually happens to me. I have not detected the steering icing on mine yet other than to say that it handles poorly due to the stock skis and high centre of gravity - but will continue to monitor that. I was planning on some after market skis but am now very reluctant to invest any more into an unsatisfactory machine.
rydblue
Extreme
Is that a Yamaha accessory skidplate on your VL? Looks to me like that is what is trapping all the snow and ice.
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
The skid plate is Yamaha, like the sled it must have been tested and approved.....
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Bomba, If the sled is going to tip over hit the kill ASAP. If it tips over the antifreeze will run out the overflow vent on the coolant tank and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. A little Prestone will always look like a lot.
Had coolant in the airbox on one occasion, wiped it out as best I could and motored on.
Have not had any indication of oil in the airbox as of yet.
ALWAYS let the sled sit for 5- 10 minutes before restarting after a roll over.
Of course it is imperative to right the sled ASAP.
It is also better if you don't roll it over in the first place..... Tough to prevent on a VL or MP.
Had coolant in the airbox on one occasion, wiped it out as best I could and motored on.
Have not had any indication of oil in the airbox as of yet.
ALWAYS let the sled sit for 5- 10 minutes before restarting after a roll over.
Of course it is imperative to right the sled ASAP.
It is also better if you don't roll it over in the first place..... Tough to prevent on a VL or MP.