Phazer vs. TNT

[madthumper]

You must have a RX1.Probably the first year.Maybe if you would listen to the great advice of all the people here with RX1's you would be just creaming the 600's.If you have a Apex well there is something wrong with it and same applies.If you have any other brand 4st then go buy a Yamaha.The TNT I raced was the first year.They called it a 600 at the time since motor was almost 600cc's now they are calling that motor a 500 even though it is still same cc's as before.You tell me why they did that?

the tnt has the same motor in it now as it did the first year it came out. the 500ss which is the same motor they had in the revs the first year they came out is what i have been told. and they call it a 500 for insurance reasons according to my local ski-doo dealer. 600cc or larger insurance goes up

No.The first year it was a TNT it had carbs on it.Now they call that sled a TNT 500ss.Now they put the E-tec motor in it and it is called a TNT 600.Same size motor but with E-tec.I have never raced one of those.Yet.Reason they changed designation to 500 is because that is what it belongs competing with or can compete with.I was told to let this go.Makes sense to me.

The other way around actually, the 500SS (which was always a 600) is now called a 600.

 

[fraolib]

yea. agreeed

 

[RIGIDONE]

wow!!!!!

 

[Prav]

Cannon... i started this post because they are direct competition on the trail for me. The sleds seem pretty even 0-70 which is all that matters. thanks for the input fellas. I hope my modded Phazer will smoke the TNT in this range...

 

[Motoman765]

Why are you guys wasting your time? You're not going to convince this guy of reality. IE: Four stroke has a wider power band and makes the power over a wider range for a longer time during the RPM range, while the Two stroke only makes the peak rated power for a very short period of time in the RPM range. The four stroke also makes better torque than the two stroke which comes to play in the initial launch from the start. Where the two stroke has to rely on the narrow power band range where it makes the horse power at that certain RPM range. Which presents a lag time of power from take off. And if you read the earlier posts nobody really says the Phazer is really faster, just that they run pretty even up to the top end where in most cases the TNT then takes over by a few MPH. I know that by my speedometer (which by GPS testing neither sled is very accurate) my sled runs about 85 MPH (depending on conditions) and I would guess my friends TNT may do 95, but once we get up that fast it doesn't seem that much of a difference. In the woods on the trails riding the two sleds it really doesn't seem much of a difference at all, just a different kind of power. If you get to ride the two sleds back to back like I did you'd see. (PS the TNT model I rode was the first year carbed 500ss motor with electric start. While the 500ss is a 596cc motor it is completely different than the 600 class motor Skidoo offers. different pipes, carbs, jetting, and porting in the motor. I still have a GSX500ss for the wife and have ridden/owned all kinds of different model MXZs from '96 till I bought the Phazer in '07)

 

[madthumper]

Why are you guys wasting your time? You're not going to convince this guy of reality. IE: Four stroke has a wider power band and makes the power over a wider range for a longer time during the RPM range, while the Two stroke only makes the peak rated power for a very short period of time in the RPM range. The four stroke also makes better torque than the two stroke which comes to play in the initial launch from the start. Where the two stroke has to rely on the narrow power band range where it makes the horse power at that certain RPM range. Which presents a lag time of power from take off. And if you read the earlier posts nobody really says the Phazer is really faster, just that they run pretty even up to the top end where in most cases the TNT then takes over by a few MPH. I know that by my speedometer (which by GPS testing neither sled is very accurate) my sled runs about 85 MPH (depending on conditions) and I would guess my friends TNT may do 95, but once we get up that fast it doesn't seem that much of a difference. In the woods on the trails riding the two sleds it really doesn't seem much of a difference at all, just a different kind of power. If you get to ride the two sleds back to back like I did you'd see. (PS the TNT model I rode was the first year carbed 500ss motor with electric start. While the 500ss is a 596cc motor it is completely different than the 600 class motor Skidoo offers. different pipes, carbs, jetting, and porting in the motor. I still have a GSX500ss for the wife and have ridden/owned all kinds of different model MXZs from '96 till I bought the Phazer in '07)

One more time....I ride a 4 stroke!

The only reality you need to convince me of is that 10mph is a few.

I'm going to let you kids hash this one out. You win. Since I'm looking for a Phazer, please PM your asking price for any stock Phazer that runs even close to any 600 class sled on top end. I will give you what you paid for it, sight unseen and regardless of condition. lol.

 

[Ruckus]

Madthumper,
Back in the 80's Audi entered its quattro in the Trans Am series with a 2.5L, 5 cylinder engine and absolutely beat the pants off every V8 in the races. So much so that officials made audi add weight and reduce tire size to make the competition more even. How could that be possible? I believe the V8 was a 6.6L at the time. Everyone should watch this video, there are a lot of analogies to the Phazer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuxwR5i6Vlo

 

[zackn291]

Madthumper,
Back in the 80's Audi entered its quattro in the Trans Am series with a 2.5L, 5 cylinder engine and absolutely beat the pants off every V8 in the races. So much so that officials made audi add weight and reduce tire size to make the competition more even. How could that be possible? I believe the V8 was a 6.6L at the time. Everyone should watch this video, there are a lot of analogies to the Phazer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuxwR5i6Vlo

I enjoyed that video alot.. thanks.

Ruck what do you mean that your friends call the Phazer the Kangaroo? I don't understand the nickname.

 

[Ruckus]

You're welcome. It really demonstrates how the handling of the vehicle is far more important than the power it develops. They call it the kangaroo because of the way it hops down the trail. That and because I spend about half the time in the air. I mean really, if you drove most sleds the way you can a phazer they would be pounded soft in no time. Whatever I throw at it it just laughs at me.

 

[zackn291]

I'll have to agree the Phazer sure does take one hell of a beating. Especially when people like me take advantage of a bumpy trail.

 

[marpolsdofer]

Iv seen that vieso befr but that reminds me why I had some few hard snowx races. I would keep letting the trottel all the way go. Later on in the seaon I got use to hold presser on the trottel to prevent clutch lag and keeped the other on the brake.

 

[Motoman765]

Another way to look at it would be, yes the TNT is faster on the top end as far as speed goes. No the TNT is not quicker than the Phazer to get to top speed. There is a picture somewhere in the forums here of one of the guys pulling the holeshot in a race on a Phazer against the 600 class. I'll have to try and find that and put a link here. While yes the 600s are faster than the Phazer at certain points they may not be quicker.

 

[zackn291]

NOT MY PICTURE!

this is the picture you were talking about?

I dont know who the rider is, I think it might be Seth but even if it is Seth. I'm going to call BS on him getting the holeshot. If you look to the far right you can see that there is another sled that appears to be farther ahead. But he still got the hole on 4 other sleds

 

[marpolsdofer]

yep thats seth! You guys know that he is on this site, right? (he has two names, so I have seen). I was guessing you guys were talking about his pic becaues I have seen them befor on his site.

I had the lead befor aginst some 600's but got last becaues I crashed at the 2nd to last lap.

 

[zackn291]

Ya I know he's on the site. We all know it.