Possible HOT start issue fix.

[TestMaster]

Yes no word yet and no diag tool to do it yet. The hopefully is just the timing. I know Yamaha can fix this issue. Yellowknife is the one I want to see results with. If his starts they all should.

My dealer's techs went to the Yamaha school last week and received their combo diagnosis tool and download tool at the class. Expect to see the required material to perform reflash in the next 2 weeks.

 

[excallibur101]

From what I understand, (and I'm not a viper owner), the ecu is a CAT piece, and not the same as the Nytro ecu. This could explain a calibration issue, but if the sled is getting too hot to restart, there's another issue there. Even though the temp rises after shut down, it shouldn't rise enough to over heat. If this is a problem, I'd be looking at ways to increase the cooling ability if the system, and ways to shed the under hood heat from exhaust, etc.
Also, this sled is built in the us, not Japan like other Yamaha models. I'm not certain that it would be built/shipped with 100% antifreeze, but anything is possible..
On my sleds, I've gotten rid of the green antifreeze, and I run BE-Cool's antifreeze, which I use in all my cars. It will cure a marginal hot asked issue with no problems, and does not get diluted. By far the best coolant I've ever used. Pm me if anyone wants some, I carry it at my shop.

No matter which company engineers that ECU/ECM,the parameters are set to that specific manufacturers specifications for that engine maker which is Yamaha.there was no issue that I know of with their Suzuki engine ECMs in there Cats.Somebody knows something about this problem,there just taking their time to address and correct the issue.Spending more time trying to get their share of the market on these mountain sleds,which are becoming hot.

 

[nate007]

Excalibur101, you are correct that it's still built to Yamaha's specs, but I should have clarified that my point was that there are differences between the two, and not that it it's necessarily a problem. Just like the clutching differences, it just takes a little tweaking.
That being said, it's hard to say if their "fix" will actually solve the problem, or band aid the symptom. I'm sure we all know that none of them are perfect, and we've all had to come up with fixes for frustrating issues.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they run around 160-170, which shouldn't be a problem until you add boost, so I'd still say to address a way to beef up the cooling system and isolate heat sources, and I'd bet most of the hot start issues would disappear.

 

[excallibur101]

Excalibur101, you are correct that it's still built to Yamaha's specs, but I should have clarified that my point was that there are differences between the two, and not that it it's necessarily a problem. Just like the clutching differences, it just takes a little tweaking.
That being said, it's hard to say if their "fix" will actually solve the problem, or band aid the symptom. I'm sure we all know that none of them are perfect, and we've all had to come up with fixes for frustrating issues.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they run around 160-170, which shouldn't be a problem until you add boost, so I'd still say to address a way to beef up the cooling system and isolate heat sources, and I'd bet most of the hot start issues would disappear.

I totally agree with you I believe it is temperature related,i would hope they diagnose the problem and release what the issue really is instead of just sugar coating it.

 

[cannondale27]

I believe it is temp related also. What worries me is we had a very cold winter. Never rode above 20deg f except for last ride around here where it got above freezing and I had the no start,code and low idle all on same day. My sled never had any of these issues all year. Just that one day. Then you have the other end of issue with Yellowknife who has had all kinds of same trouble in the cold. Those of us who had no issues in the cold weather may very well have a lot of issues when it's a normal warmer winter. Will be glad when this update is done.

 

[redrider750]

Does anyone know if this was corrected on the 2015 models. I get mine in a couple days and hope this issue was fixed.

 

[nate007]

I would be curious to find out if anyone who is having this issue can determine if their sled is getting fuel while cranking-when it's not starting that is. I've been thinking of possible issues on an efi system that would prevent it from starting, and I'd be hard pressed to think it's 100% due to a programming issue. If it were, I would think that anyone who has had their sled get warm while riding would experience the engine dying?
1. Is that happening to anyone while riding?
2. If your engine gets too warm while riding, does it lose performance, sputter and/or stumble when riding?
3. When cranking a hot engine that doesn't want to start, do you smell any fuel?
4. How common is this issue? Is it must of you that have them, or just a few?
Typically, efi engines don't have issues hot starting and not suffer at the same temps when running. I know they get warmer after shutdown, but they'd get just as hot in marginal conditions or idling for a while
Something is making me think it's a "perfect storm" type of issue, and partially a mechanical issue as well. I don't know exactly how much of the mechanical parts are different between the viper models and the Nytros, but it sounds like there is something else going on there too, possibly with heat soak in the fuel system as well. (lines, regulator, pump, injectors or idle motor)
It's peaked my curiosity, I'm doing some digging to see what I can find..

 

[cannondale27]

All that is great and I appreciate you looking into it but along with the starting and low idle issues many more have had the P1338 code=crank spike. Plus all the issues are inconsistent. That leads me to believe the Operating code or HEX code which is used to run the system is faulty.

 

[stingray719]

Guys, couple of facts here.
1. The Viper fan that comes on when hot and you turn the key on.....blows DIRECTLY into the air box opening.
2. I know of not one manufacture that deliberately blows hot air into the intake, obvious reasons why that I need not post.

I made my own fix on our red Viper even though I only had this happen once. I took the blind spline out of the fan connector and turned it 180 degrees and put it back together, now the fan evacuates the air and not force it into the air box. (Honda reversed their fan on when they went to the GL1800 so this is not new) Now, I have not tested it in snow yet but heat cycled it dozens of times. Don't try this until I get to test it on the snow.

Now my Blue Viper I am testing a radiator delete, but once again without snow it is an unknown. BUT, I am determined to NOT have the radiator preheat the under hood area.


Could there also be a ECU issue? Of course, but that still does not in my mind negate the need to get the hot air out from under the hood.

 

[cannondale27]

I agree. Cold air should make more power!

 

[drumz11]

All that is great and I appreciate you looking into it but along with the starting and low idle issues many more have had the P1338 code=crank spike. Plus all the issues are inconsistent. That leads me to believe the Operating code or HEX code which is used to run the system is faulty.

Good post. Sounds about right and sound closer to what little info has been mentioned by Yamaha/cat. They have been working on the issue for quite a while and I don't doubt it won't be fixed in ECU programming.

 

[excallibur101]

Good post. Sounds about right and sound closer to what little info has been mentioned by Yamaha/cat. They have been working on the issue for quite a while and I don't doubt it won't be fixed in ECU programming.

In my own opinion, Yama/Cat are more concerned with marketing more sleds while the iron is hot since both companies will score well with this deal so there pushing out as much as they could setting the issues the sleds are having aside and spending little time on their quality control and testing aside I see it.{typical corporate America}relieving the issues as they come very slowly as they feel to do so.Its your hard earned money their taking,your basically paying them to test their machine as they string you along as it comes time to repair their negligence.Personally,I as well as others agree,their quality control and engineering and machine testing have failed as they have tried to rush these sleds into production leaving out those important factors.Let face it,most of these people you see on their videos are nothing more than glorified salesmen pussy footing through nice groomed acceptable conditions to make it all look good on video with a few great snapshots to tell you their sled performs awesome.{Weeeeee look at meeeeee}.Now, In true real world testing,the way it should be done to test its strengths and weakness,and to see if QC and engineering did their jobs well, the sled or what have you should be put through the utmost extreme riding conditions ,no pussy footing here boys. All out full throttle,ditch diving,jumping,carving,lake blasts at nothing but full throttle,and extreme harsh braking conditions as if the sled was on race race course maxxed out to its fullest potential to near destruction and be done at long enduring intervals to test the machines strengths and weakneses ,{Run it through the Hell Hole.} Let the truth be told at that point where the corrections and improvements need to be made before it goes on the consumer market.That would then prove they would a a virtually bullet proof machine their customers would be happy with to spend their money on.Lets face it,these sleds are very expensive,would'nt you feel better knowing you got your moneys worth of fun out of it rather than wasting it on a headache ??? I know I would expect better quality for that premium price we are paying> No more of this tip towing through the tulips at our expense.Lets see POSITIVE RESULTS NOW no BS.

 

[Sevey]

Hey Stingray 719, Cool post about reversing your fan. Interested to hear an updated post laster this winter. Are you not concerned with fan sucking and blowing hot air from the engine compartment through the rad? Rads typically like cool frosty air running through them, not warm air.
What do you think...
MS

 

[wavemaster]

.....POSITIVE RESULTS NOW no BS.

Wow. I actually find your whole rant funny. You make it sound like they can't go across a lake, can't run wide open, don't last a day. Just funny really.

There was an issue with reverse, they fixed it.

There was a quality issue on hose clamps - they identified them and fixed it.

Some people are having issues with hot starts. SOME people. Intermittent problems are always the hardest to find. Especially when the bulk of your users have a 3-4 month season and reports didn't start coming for the first month. At any rate, we have been told there is a fix and they are going to be rolling it out sometime in November. Will it be just reprogramming? Parts, configurations etc. we don't know yet.

If you think in this day and age with social media being the way it is that Yamaha or Cat for that matter would knowingly produce a bad product and just count on more new sales you know very little about manufacturing and marketing.

Relax, lets see what the next couple of weeks bring - or if that is too much to bear, sell your Yamaha and buy a popo or a doo. We'll see you in a couple years when you come back.

BTW - Owner of many Yamaha's, they have ALWAYS stood by their product in the past and so far in the case of the new Vipers as well, I don't see any reason for that to change going forward.

 

[excallibur101]

Wow. I actually find your whole rant funny. You make it sound like they can't go across a lake, can't run wide open, don't last a day. Just funny really.

There was an issue with reverse, they fixed it.

There was a quality issue on hose clamps - they identified them and fixed it.

Some people are having issues with hot starts. SOME people. Intermittent problems are always the hardest to find. Especially when the bulk of your users have a 3-4 month season and reports didn't start coming for the first month. At any rate, we have been told there is a fix and they are going to be rolling it out sometime in November. Will it be just reprogramming? Parts, configurations etc. we don't know yet.

If you think in this day and age with social media being the way it is that Yamaha or Cat for that matter would knowingly produce a bad product and just count on more new sales you know very little about manufacturing and marketing.

Relax, lets see what the next couple of weeks bring - or if that is too much to bear, sell your Yamaha and buy a popo or a doo. We'll see you in a couple years when you come back.

BTW - Owner of many Yamaha's, they have ALWAYS stood by their product in the past and so far in the case of the new Vipers as well, I don't see any reason for that to change going forward.

I am a Yamaha guy and own two of them currently - and love them much better than the other makes. I have previously owned many of them bombs (so to speak). Yes I hear a lot of flack from the other guys owning up to their other makes bombs always busting balls about owning a Yamaha,why ,because they just don't know any better from experience. I like to stick to my guns and stand up for it when I know its good if not the best. I am not a switch hitter so to say.. When something serves me well I stick with it through the thick and thin. I speak my mind how I feel upon a situation without the sugar coating. I understand I may be a bit extreme as this is my method of thinking to bring out the best is why I choose and stay with Yamaha sleds and so on. I don't want you to take it in any negative way or means to my understanding of what I see needs to be improved only to make it better for everyone. Understanding what you have said I know quality does take time to achieve and that being said I believe Yamaha/Cat both slacked off a bit on their quality assurance buy rushing this sled into production without further testing as Ford did so with their 6.0 powerstroke in the beginning and what a nightmare that turned out to be due to their negligence of trying to rush it out into the market to soon without testing. I see this as the same situation and the end result is the consumer ends up being screwed because of this. Keep in mind its my own opinion you do not have to agree.