Hot start Issue found??

[towman]

I was at my dealer last Saturday having words about the large list of issues with my viper that was pretty much a waste of my time and fuel.With the hot start issue our reps good friend bought a viper with this issue and i know he is on him about it as far as i have heard there is nothing yet. That being said it is cats electronics so i would think it will need to come from them.

 

[stingray719]

I was at my dealer last Saturday having words about the large list of issues with my viper that was pretty much a waste of my time and fuel.With the hot start issue our reps good friend bought a viper with this issue and i know he is on him about it as far as i have heard there is nothing yet. That being said it is cats electronics so i would think it will need to come from them.

"IF" it is the electronics and not underhood heat. We may also have more than one issue as people have decribed different symptoms. Kinda like if your car does not sart it could be battery or starter.

 

[geez150]

I was reading all 9 pages of this topic today and I agree that the hot air in the air box is not helping but as others have said it seems to be a air/fuel ratio problem in the ECU mapping and I would agree with the latter statement as well. Anyways I thought I had seen in a mag that Yamaha remapped the ECU so I dug out my spring 2014 issue of American Snowmobiler that has the sneak peak of all the 2015 models and on page 44 it states this. "There is also a new ECU map in ALL Viper sleds including one that is calibrated for the mountains and the YVXR clutch system is paired with it for max response." Now it does not say why they did the ECU remap just that Yamaha has done one for 2015, hope this helps out.

 

[TestMaster]

The question is does the ECU remap cure the hot start issues and are they going to fix the 2014 models already in the publics hands? Nobody appears to be able to answer those 2 questions.

The real issue is that when you have complex systems where multiple components contribute to any function and those components are never tested as a system or subsystem before they get installed, these types of issues can and do happen. Seen it time and again over the last 40 years and more now with the increased level of digital controlled components. Manufacturing guys tend to blame suppliers but usually individual suppliers parts are to print. However when you stack up tolerances across all the contributing components you will see that some Systems or Subsystems just don't work. That is why we are seeing different problems and varying degrees of these issues across the 5,000-10,000 Vehicle population. These issues are not easy to fix, they take time. Just hope we don't have an Integrated Circuit go out of production. Now that can be a real headache!

 

[geez150]

Yeah I hear ya. It will be interesting to see if the ECU remap fixes the starting issues some/most have seen and yes it will be even more interesting to see if Yamaha steps up and fixes the 2014's.

 

[YamahaTim]

The question is does the ECU remap cure the hot start issues and are they going to fix the 2014 models already in the publics hands? Nobody appears to be able to answer those 2 questions.

The real issue is that when you have complex systems where multiple components contribute to any function and those components are never tested as a system or subsystem before they get installed, these types of issues can and do happen. Seen it time and again over the last 40 years and more now with the increased level of digital controlled components. Manufacturing guys tend to blame suppliers but usually individual suppliers parts are to print. However when you stack up tolerances across all the contributing components you will see that some Systems or Subsystems just don't work. That is why we are seeing different problems and varying degrees of these issues across the 5,000-10,000 Vehicle population. These issues are not easy to fix, they take time. Just hope we don't have an Integrated Circuit go out of production. Now that can be a real headache!

I totally agree, the problem that I have is that how could Yamaha/Cat test and retest these sleds and say they never noticed any of these issues we are having. And the list is not a small one! I would have to think that on this web site we have tons of variations of riders. From slow to extreme and either way most of the problems exists in one way or the other. And you are right it takes time!! None are a simple fix. How long is Yamaha even going to sell the Viper? That could be one reason that some or most of the problems are not being addressed. Maybe Yamaha is more concerned with what's coming next. Who knows. Just another thing to think about...

 

[TestMaster]

When you build prototypes, companies usually select the prototype suppliers for production. The initial engineering prototype TDP identifies components to use in the product build. Usually suppliers can use equal to or better components for supplied product, however if they use a higher priced electronic component for the prototypes and then switch to the required component what happens is the higher cost component used in the prototypes has a tighter tolerance than normal production, they cost more because the production run was screened to select the tighter tolerance parts so when they purchase production quantities the parts they buy are usually from those lots where the tighter tolerance material was already removed so what you could get are parts that are closer to the tolerance limits. Not saying that this is what happened, just one possibility.

Having worked with systems that had up to 6 Million lines of code and 6 interactive displays each since the early 90's I've had more experience with this sort of thing than many. So many things can happen it's amazing anything works at times!

My point is we don't have many issues, and I am sure they are working it. They have more collective knowledge than I.

 

[YamahaTim]

When you build prototypes, companies usually select the prototype suppliers for production. The initial engineering prototype TDP identifies compnants to use in the product build. Usually suppliers can use equal to or better components for supplied product, however if they use a higher priced electronic component for the prototypes and then switch to the required component what happens is the higher cost component used in the prototypes has a tighter tolerance than normal production, they cost more because the production run was screened to select the tighter tolerance parts so when they purchase production quantities the parts they buy are usually from those lots where the tighter tolerance material was already removed so what you could get are parts that are closer to the tolerance limits. Not saying that this is what happened, just one possibility.

Having worked with systems that had up to 6 Million lines of code and 6 interactive displays each since the early 90's I've had more experience with this sort of thing than many. So many things can happen it's amazing anything works at times!

My point is we don't have many issues, and it am sure their working it. They have more collective knowledge than I.

More than me as well!!...lol...

 

[towman]

As a automotive and truck coach red seal tech i see the end result of ghosts in the programing component incompatibility improper sized wire and voltage issues with a host of other issues.On brand new units but with that i have the diagnostic to work on them. I would love to to be able to pull live data stream from the viper during a no start and see the correlation between sensors and voltage line drop. I guess this all boils down to is we all payed hard earned money and ended up with this and other issues and we can all agree that we want these issues addressed

 

[NOS-PRO]

FYI - I still have my stupid little piece of cardboard deflecting heat away from the intake. This past Saturday was very warm middle 80's and very humid. Not 1 single hot start issue since I put the piece of cardboard into place a few weeks ago. Before then I had a couple hot start issues while racing asphalt.

 

[stingray719]

FYI - I still have my stupid little piece of cardboard deflecting heat away from the intake. This past Saturday was very warm middle 80's and very humid. Not 1 single hot start issue since I put the piece of cardboard into place a few weeks ago. Before then I had a couple hot start issues while racing asphalt.

Agreed, I can't wait for winter to test the fan reverse mod I put on girlfriends Viper.