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Possible kickback solution?

skidooslayer687 said:
Just going threw the process of having mine reflashed now...

A little history on my sled, its a 14, full hurricane/hindle kit on it with the PC5. The first year I got it (13) It always started perfect, no kickback issue, no hot start issue, no codes. I always turn my key on and let it prime then start it. Going into the 2nd year of riding the original reflash was done by the dealer, right away I noticed a different idle (almost like it had a cam in it lol) and that famous "blurp" just above idle that sounded like a stutter box almost. However, the sled never failed to start hot or cold, always started strong and almost no hesistation. About mid winter last year is the first time I've ever had any starting issues at all, cold starts the motor wanted to roll longer, kick, kickback and then sometimes would fire up and sometimes would need to cycle the key again. Hot starts also presented a problem and this came before the cold starts became an issue, on hot starts it would roll and roll, would not kick at all, sometimes would backfire, it would need a key cycle off and then retry to get it to start and it would always start. Last spring I took it to the dealer and complained of these issues as they'd never happened before to me, they were great about it, replaced the starter and drive no questions asked and I was told at that time about this update coming.

So I dropped the sled off at the dealer, they did the update on it... And now its having the common problem of having to roll it, in which it fires but doesn't stay running and then the key cycle off and then retry it which it fires up. I will say it does sound better, it doesn't have the kickback sound to it. I went to have a look at it as the dealer said it was ready and this is when I found out how it started. Basically told them that it never has acted like this, and it always started very strong without hesistation... There still looking into the problem, tests have been done on it, now what has been done Im unclear... Tried different things I know for sure such as unhooking PC5 from system and it did not make a difference at all.

Its interesting reading all the info with these problems with starting, I don't understand why Yamaha cannot figure it out, and there doesn't seem to be an exact cause, some sleds do it, some don't.... Mine never had a single issue at all till last winter, what happened I have no idea but definitely know it never did it before with the original flash it came with or the 2nd one they came out with
Click to expand...
Did the dealer disconnect the pcv before the flash? My dealer specifically made the effort to take the hood off and reconnect the the harness to stock before flashing it! Said it was crucial before flash!
 

Mike P said:
8

The engine is rated very high in the industry. The fact is if there was only one minor issue then most likely this thread would not exist. It seems that with all of the input over the last few years we need to be looking at fine details.
If it were only the battery location then the trouble would be the same from sled to sled however if you add TB-Sync then it presents in a different way. Both issues would seem minor on there own. I'm sure most people will look at a problem with there sled and run thru a simple cause and affect, end up with the conclusion:
"that can't be it because mine doesn't do that"
If there are multiple minor issues and some of us have more of them than others that seems to fit the type of results we are having. I have read a lot of threads on TY related to this subject and I'm sure there are some guys that could put together a list of minor issues that on there own would not create a problem in which the sled would be disabled and some times could go unnoticed, but when two or more exist together they would become serious enough to disable the sled. This requires a fare amount of knowledge, patience and a firm understanding of the engine and ignition system. A check list of sorts, DIY with the right tools.
Unfortunately I'm sure some components like the ECU will be more of a challenge.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct. The minor issues and tolerances stack up to make a nightmare for some. Limited season and ride time also contribute to solving this along with the fact that there were probably more Vipers and 7000s sold in first year than all the Nytro's and vectors combined.
 
I told them to disconnect it to be safe, unsure if they did or not as I wasnt there when they flashed it.
 
Exactly what I thought anyways, still havnt heard back, they were doing more testing anyways to see if they could get it starting better like it used to but Im starting to have my doubts
 
For the record I too am on my third starter. 2014 LTX with 6K miles and 2015 ecu flash. This sled starts differently every time. Hot or cold 1 time in 10 it starts clean. I also have another 14 ltx here with 3k miles with the 2015 ecu flash. It is very consistent on how it starts hot or cold. Pretty much goes through a revolution on the motor then fires and stays running. Still on original starter. Neither sled has any engine mods.

Early fall I took booth sleds to my dealer primarily to get my issues documented with Yamaha. The last starter was replaced in Canada. It cost me a small fortune. Placed the claim with my dealer but no help. YES does not cover repairs in Canada (as discussed in other forums) so I at least wanted them fess up that my sled has a problem. I wanted it to be documented and added to the list. I asked them to look into the problem and gave them permission to exchange ECUs between sleds for comparison. They were reluctant to do that. They did check batteries and claimed that the problem sled's battery was weak. They replaced it but found no improvement in starting. I was told to just keep it charged and updates where coming but could not say when. However I am first on the list for them to call when it is available.

I don't mean to change the direction of this page at hand. If any one who is studying the solution needs specifics on my starter failure issues please ask. Anyone who has had similar issue and has gone the EVO route please speak up and give us the good and bad. Right now I am on the fence. do I wait for Yamaha's fix or go EVO with some mods
 
wavey said:
For the record I too am on my third starter. 2014 LTX with 6K miles and 2015 ecu flash. This sled starts differently every time. Hot or cold 1 time in 10 it starts clean. I also have another 14 ltx here with 3k miles with the 2015 ecu flash. It is very consistent on how it starts hot or cold. Pretty much goes through a revolution on the motor then fires and stays running. Still on original starter. Neither sled has any engine mods.

Early fall I took booth sleds to my dealer primarily to get my issues documented with Yamaha. The last starter was replaced in Canada. It cost me a small fortune. Placed the claim with my dealer but no help. YES does not cover repairs in Canada (as discussed in other forums) so I at least wanted them fess up that my sled has a problem. I wanted it to be documented and added to the list. I asked them to look into the problem and gave them permission to exchange ECUs between sleds for comparison. They were reluctant to do that. They did check batteries and claimed that the problem sled's battery was weak. They replaced it but found no improvement in starting. I was told to just keep it charged and updates where coming but could not say when. However I am first on the list for them to call when it is available.

I don't mean to change the direction of this page at hand. If any one who is studying the solution needs specifics on my starter failure issues please ask. Anyone who has had similar issue and has gone the EVO route please speak up and give us the good and bad. Right now I am on the fence. do I wait for Yamaha's fix or go EVO with some mods
Click to expand...

Swap those ECU's and let us know what happens. I wouldn't be reluctant to do that and it would be interesting to see if the problem follows the ECU.
 
wavey said:
For the record I too am on my third starter. 2014 LTX with 6K miles and 2015 ecu flash. This sled starts differently every time. Hot or cold 1 time in 10 it starts clean. I also have another 14 ltx here with 3k miles with the 2015 ecu flash. It is very consistent on how it starts hot or cold. Pretty much goes through a revolution on the motor then fires and stays running. Still on original starter. Neither sled has any engine mods.

Early fall I took booth sleds to my dealer primarily to get my issues documented with Yamaha. The last starter was replaced in Canada. It cost me a small fortune. Placed the claim with my dealer but no help. YES does not cover repairs in Canada (as discussed in other forums) so I at least wanted them fess up that my sled has a problem. I wanted it to be documented and added to the list. I asked them to look into the problem and gave them permission to exchange ECUs between sleds for comparison. They were reluctant to do that. They did check batteries and claimed that the problem sled's battery was weak. They replaced it but found no improvement in starting. I was told to just keep it charged and updates where coming but could not say when. However I am first on the list for them to call when it is available.

I don't mean to change the direction of this page at hand. If any one who is studying the solution needs specifics on my starter failure issues please ask. Anyone who has had similar issue and has gone the EVO route please speak up and give us the good and bad. Right now I am on the fence. do I wait for Yamaha's fix or go EVO with some mods
Click to expand...

I would exchange ECUs. See if the issue follows the part.
 
wavey said:
I will do that. We might have some snow here soon. Might be able to compare over a short ride rather than random starts on a trailer. It is going to takeaminute
Click to expand...
Awesome. This will be VERY helpful!
 
I think it is the cranksensor on the stubshaft that is doin all the damage. on some it is really loose and some stubshafts is tight. i got a ltx 2015 that was really big play on the stubshaft and my starter went broken fast. 2017 sidewinder and ac has the cranksensor sensor moved to the magneto. It can explain why some have problems and other not. If you uppgrade the electrial some of the problems diasaper but that has to do with the starter cranking faster and more lined and doesnt slow in so much when engine compress on each piston. On a stubshaft with much play clutch play can do that the trigger send a signal when the piston is in wrong place for a spark, it can be several degress of play on the stubshaft.

Just my thougts on it
 
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