Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

[74Nitro]

LMAO! End of the motor yes it does

You've got to be joking. You want to compare gear reduced torque from the crank of one engine to crank torque of another.
Apples to oranges.

 

[Sasquatch]

This post was mostly correct until the last two sentences.
You are ignoring the definition of horsepower.
Let's use the highest reving sled engine ever produced, the Yamaha Phazer.
Peak torque of 42.4 at 8800. HP - 71
Peak HP of 81.2 at 11200. Torque - 38.1
Since HP is defined as the rate at which work is done, even though the Phazer had less torque at 11200, it was still able to do more work in the same given time than what can be done with the higher torque at 8800. That, my friend, is called HP, and that is why HP rules!

And again you are talking about peak torque, peak torque was never talked about other then me repeatedly saying it was not about peak torque. I said more torque = more hp I never once said more peak torque more hp at a higher rpm. Torque and rpm are measurable hp is a made up number based on them. Why is this so hard to grasp?

 

[Sasquatch]

"Oftentimes, we hear guys say they would rather have torque than horsepower. Horsepower is the ability to do work, therefore to go faster you must have more horsepower- that's a fact. Horsepower is derived from torque and RPM. Torque without RPM is no more than a stagnant arm wrestling match- lots of torque, nothing happening! It is important, however, to build as much torque as possible at an optimum rpm to make the most usable horsepower for the application."

And there it is more torque = more hp. Torque makes hp. Torque is king hp is the result!

 

[74Nitro]

And again you are talking about peak torque, peak torque was never talked about other then me repeatedly saying it was not about peak torque. I said more torque = more hp I never once said more peak torque more hp at a higher rpm. Torque and rpm are measurable hp is a made up number based on them. Why is this so hard to grasp?

No. I wasn't demonstrating peak torque. I was demonstrating that
less torque with more rpm equals more horsepower.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Well Squatch you totally ruined my 200 page dream for this thread....we gone

 

[ClutchMaster]

Can an engine with 100 ft/lbs of torque be faster than one with 150 ft/lbs of torque? All things being equal as far as the chassis is concerned of course.

Can an engine with 100 horsepower be faster than one with 150 horsepower? All things being equal as far as the chassis is concerned of course.

#*$&@ can’t be that confusing is it?

Sasquatch you never answered my questions!^
just motors are different.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Its torque that pulls your arms out!

 

[ClutchMaster]

" Torque without RPM is no more than a stagnant arm wrestling match- lots of torque, nothing happening!

Well damit I wanted to see someone get their arms pulled out!

 

[Sasquatch]

You've got to be joking. You want to compare gear reduced torque from the crank of one engine to crank torque of another.
Apples to oranges.

And how do you suppose Yamaha dyno tested the Apex engine? Right off the end of the gear reducer then used math to convert it to engine speed. This was talked about at some length back in 2003 with the RX1 and again with the introduction of the Apex. Gear reduced torque is what the clutches see, not crank torque. Apples to apples! The crank torque is less then the clutch torque but the crank in not driving the clutch. HP stays the same torque increases same as if you put your truck in low gear, torque increases hp stays the same.

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch you never answered my questions!^
just motors are different.

You ignored mine so I ignored yours. If you increase torque does hp increase? I asked you first.

 

[Sasquatch]

No. I wasn't demonstrating peak torque. I was demonstrating that
less torque with more rpm equals more horsepower.

And more torque at any rpm makes more hp, what is your point? Again torque times rpm divided by the constant = hp.

 

[Sasquatch]

This did start over one statement and that was torque is pull (talking about a Harley) and turned into a grudge fest of insinuations and insults, yes you know who you are. So I still stand by that and stand by the simple fact that more torque more hp at any rpm. I stand by the fact that if you compare sled motors you must compare apples to apples and must compare them off the clutch the only way Yamaha could and did. A few get it the rest not so much, the reason I like the 4 stroke so much is because of its very broad torque band that translates into more speed. The Sidewinder engine has such a amazingly broad torque curve and a broad hp curve because of it. Top end and instant pull out of a corner. You guys have been fun but I just don't really care anymore. Time to ride! 100 ft/pds of torque and 100hp, all Yamaha!

 

[ClutchMaster]

You ignored mine so I ignored yours. If you increase torque does hp increase? I asked you first.

You didn’t answer my question because it proves you wrong.

I’ll answer it for you since your skirting around it.

Yes, an engine with only 100 ft/lbs of torque can be much faster than one with 150 ft/lbs of torque. It all depends on what rpm the engine makes it’s peak torque at.

No, an engine with 100 horsepower in the same chassis as a motor with 150 horsepower will never be as fast period.

You could take a turbine engine with only 10 ft/lbs, put it in a snowmobile and it would LAY WASTE TO THE BADDEST OUTLAW SLED RUNNING OVER 800 HORSEPOWER! RIPPING YOUR ARMS SOCKETS OUT, which is what really needs to happen so you stop posting jiberish!

So really engine torque numbers DON’T MEAN SQUAT it’s engine horsepower that makes a vehicle move fast.

So back to your first post in this horrific thread...

Its torque that pulls your arms out!

No it’s not! It’s horsepower.
You made a poor statement and won’t admit you were wrong and just keep going on about it.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Proving once and for all....
Horsepower is King,
Torque numbers mean little,
Sasquatch’es are not to be confused with Squawsnatches.
Every brown hole has an opinion.
Summer on TY is a long hard road I’m not gonna travel down!
See y’all next season.

 

[74Nitro]

And more torque at any rpm makes more hp, what is your point? Again torque times rpm divided by the constant = hp.

"And more torque at any RPM makes more HP"
At the upper range of an engines RPM's, this situation simply doesn't exist. Where peak HP exists, like with an Apex engine, high torque doesn't. But it doesn't have to because, again, the definition of horsepower is the rate at which work is done. Therefore, even though the torque is low at peak HP, it is being accomplished more often because of RPM.
And that is what pulls your arms out.