Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

[cobrajet ltx dx]

When is Yamaha getting out of snowmobiles ???
I haven't ridden a sled in the last 13 years that has been a must have after I have test ride ,Other than when I first rode a 06 Apex & a 2018 sidewinder. Both of which I went out and bought . I have ridden other brands , skidoo hasn't had a must buy sled yet . Polaris current 850 s are way over rated .
So unless I missed something when I last test rode a skidoo , is there something riding down the trail that they do better ? & I will look for it next year when we switch sleds .

Nope.... you didn’t miss anything.
My decision was based on a few things.
1-just wanted to try a different sled
2-primarily ride Quebec/ NB/ northern Maine
So dealer network and warranty transfers across border( no fighting to get paid when I come home)
3 wanted better fuel range for the bag trips
So for me Ski-Doo checked all the boxes.
Maybe it’s the wrong decision but I’ll have a blast on my adventures no matter what I’m riding.
Maybe Yamaha will fit the bill for Me in 2022/23

 

[Mototown]

Nope.... you didn’t miss anything.
My decision was based on a few things.
1-just wanted to try a different sled
2-primarily ride Quebec/ NB/ northern Maine
So dealer network and warranty transfers across border( no fighting to get paid when I come home)
3 wanted better fuel range for the bag trips
So for me Ski-Doo checked all the boxes.
Maybe it’s the wrong decision but I’ll have a blast on my adventures no matter what I’m riding.
Maybe Yamaha will fit the bill for Me in 2022/23

My fuel mileage was better after the flash and never the first one out , but I still think both hurricane & turbo dynamics are missing a big sales , they should have a ,240 gas mileage, 270 & 290 bundle package.
The rest isn't really sled related going down the trail...

 

[ClutchMaster]

Fuel mileage is really more of a clutching thing. Tunes can help a little, but the factory has usually got this pretty close.
Some quick spool tunes are worse mileage due to the fact a rich mixture helps spool the turbo quicker.

Long strokes and small camshafts make for a good “mileage motor”. Longer stroke engines tend to be more efficient at lower rpm’s, extracting more power from the same amount fuel. Different strokes for different folks!

Not buying a turbo sled for the mileage, but hey that’s me.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Yamaha could do this and Yamaha could do that. Yamaha could own the snowmobile market and put Doo out of business... and it goes on and on.

The reality is Yamaha is dead in the snowmo business and they could care less. They went to bed with Cat and combined they now are last and second last in market share. There is a reason for it and it isn't because they are the best sleds on the market.

We all talk about how great our Winders are and there is nothing like them yet many of us have sold them and moved to Doo and others are talking about it. That just doesn't make sense.

When Yamaha came out with the Sidewinder it got all of us excited and it looked like they may be coming out with a new line of Yamaha sleds. It felt good to see that Yamaha was still committed and we looked forward to what was coming next. Well here we are three years later and nothing is better in Yamaha world. It's worse now with fewer sleds offered and even Cat is using less Yamaha engines in their sleds. I fear the end is much closer than any of us are willing to admit.

I guess we can keep hoping and wishing. Heck I've been buying lottery tickets for years now and I guess I still will even though in the back of my mind my chances are pretty much nil.

I'm not arguing your point, but i was trying to invigorate some "talk" about the possibilities.
IF Yamaha leaves the sport, then i will deal with it.
Until then THIS thread is about existing 'Winders vs. the T and what DOO can do to improve the T and what Yamaha can do to improve the 'Winder.
Some people here are all about the speed & some are all about the ride. So people are throwing apples while others are throwing oranges at each other.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS!
I didn't think i NEEDED all this Turbo power, but i'm not sure i can go back.
As a matter of fact, i just bought a twin Turbo F150. With just a tune, i can get 475 HP with 620 ft./lbs. of Torque.
I now have FAA.

F=forced
A=air
A=addiction

P.S. PLEASE don't bring up the Torque vs. Horsepower debate

 

[stevewithOCD]

Has the aftermarket world tried different intakes on the T yet!

 

[74Nitro]

I'm not arguing your point, but i was trying to invigorate some "talk" about the possibilities.
IF Yamaha leaves the sport, then i will deal with it.
Until then THIS thread is about existing 'Winders vs. the T and what DOO can do to improve the T and what Yamaha can do to improve the 'Winder.
Some people here are all about the speed & some are all about the ride. So people are throwing apples while others are throwing oranges at each other.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS!
I didn't think i NEEDED all this Turbo power, but i'm not sure i can go back.
As a matter of fact, i just bought a twin Turbo F150. With just a tune, i can get 475 HP with 620 ft./lbs. of Torque.
I now have FAA.

F=forced
A=air
A=addiction

P.S. PLEASE don't bring up the Torque vs. Horsepower debate

I drive a tuned F-150 turbo and my dad has the 19 Limited.
I also can't 'go back'!

 

[ClutchMaster]

Let’s see what’s really going on inside that OCD mind of yours....
...

I think you had better go to the nearest Yamaha dealer ASAP!
The Ski-doo cancer is out of control!
I’m sure there’s treatment options for you. Im no doctor but I would think moving to the North Pole and riding a Sidewinder every day until the tumor changes into a SW is a good start imo.
Modify you diet? No Koolaid?

 

[ClutchMaster]

All joking aside, we all have different expectations and needs. If Skidoo, Polaris or Arctic Cat had what I need.....gone with the wind!!!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Has the aftermarket world tried different intakes on the T yet!

Every Doo made has a performance designed intake with TB's right next to the cylinders, Just like all YAM intake designs, with the exception of their 4s engines. DOO 4s will never have instant snap when throttle is cracked quickly. The Turbo version has made the thumb/engine relationship worse then previous NA DOO4s. No matter how much you try to program (reprogram) how quickly the butterfly moves in relationship to your thumb, you still have a 'too long' intake tract which is a far too long distance to travel resulting in a throttle delay.

Doo made the decision to mount ALL their engines low and upright on all their sleds, which works well on their 2s engines since the 2s is not as tall and the stacked clutches/Jshaft location allow for the TB's to be attached directly to the engine. However on their 4s engine this way of mounting their engines will not allow for the TB to be mounted closely, as the Jshaft is there. Doo made a long plastic intake that snakes over and around the Jshaft. Yamaha mounts the engines reverse allowing for performance and then tilts the engine giving a low CG as the rods do not travel vertically like the DOO does, giving the feel of low CG.

No 4s DOO will ever have a snappy instant throttle until someone changes the intake length. And DOO could care less about this, they sell their 4s to guys who tour and ride with their wives and "get used to" the poor thumb to engine connection. So DOO reads how all their owners think the throttle is fine, and how many they sell...no reason for DOO to change a thing. The DOO 2s is the only sleds they sell with a true snappy/instant throttle. Otherwise if you want a 4s you need to buy a Viper if you want instant Throttle in NA, or Winder for a Performance Turbo.

Dan

 

[yamadoo]

Every Doo made has a performance designed intake with TB's right next to the cylinders, Just like all YAM intake designs, with the exception of their 4s engines. DOO 4s will never have instant snap when throttle is cracked quickly. The Turbo version has made the thumb/engine relationship worse then previous NA DOO4s. No matter how much you try to program (reprogram) how quickly the butterfly moves in relationship to your thumb, you still have a 'too long' intake tract which is a far too long distance to travel resulting in a throttle delay.

Doo made the decision to mount ALL their engines low and upright on all their sleds, which works well on their 2s engines since the 2s is not as tall and the stacked clutches/Jshaft location allow for the TB's to be attached directly to the engine, same as YAM does. However on their 4s engine this way of mounting their engines will not allow for the TB to be mounted closely, as the Jshaft is there. Doo made a long plastic intake that snakes over and around the Jshaft. Yamaha mounts the engines reverse allowing for performance and then tilts the engine giving a low CG as the rods do not travel vertically like the DOO does, giving the feel of low CG.

No 4s DOO will ever have a snappy instant throttle until someone changes the intake length. And DOO could care less about this, they sell their 4s to guys who tour and ride with their wives and "get used to" the poor thumb to engine connection. So DOO reads how all their owners think the throttle is fine, and how many they sell...no reason for DOO to change a thing. The DOO 2s is the only sleds they sell with a true snappy/instant throttle. Otherwise if you want a 4s you need to buy a Viper if you want instant Throttle in NA, or Winder for a Performance Turbo.

Dan

View attachment 148907

Well said.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Well said.

Yep, nicely done.

So sweet to have the turbo stock and shared costs with AC to develop makes it fat and profitable just how Yamaha likes it.

Hummm, gotta wonder why doo is using a cheap single throttle body design?
Individual throttle bodys for each cylinder are more costly, you would think yamaha would have gone the cheapest route also???

 

[KnappAttack]

So NOT true about the long intake. The hardest hitting, and most instant response machine I’ve ever owned or riden was my old cable operated 1200s with single throttle body on it.

So throw that theory out the window.

Both my old NA and turbo 1200s. They were literally instant and would always holeshot ANYTHING. If you weren’t careful with my old turbo 1200s they would put you in the trees. They were not the new throttle by wire though either.

Far more responsive than the decompressed winder with triple throttle bodies.

 

[ClutchMaster]

So NOT true about the long intake. The hardest hitting, and most instant response machine I’ve ever owned or riden was my old cable operated 1200s with single throttle body on it.

So throw that theory out the window.

Both my old NA and turbo 1200s. They were literally instant and would always holeshot ANYTHING. If you weren’t careful with my old turbo 1200s they would put you in the trees. They were not the new throttle by wire though either.

Far more responsive than the decompressed winder with triple throttle bodies.

I tend to agree it’s not completely the issue, but it’s a fact that the less volume between the intake valve and the butterflies will give better transient response.

I think the fact that the 1200 is a larger motor with increased power down in the lower rpm’s range (Dare I say more TORQUE?) it has the ability to quickly pull up rpm quicker. The larger 1200 engine would be less susceptible to large plenum/runner volumes causing poor transient response.

I’ve experimented on my turbo viper with different clutch setups and this has a lot to do with it also, of course you know this.

I’m sure the compression on the 900t is lower than an N/A 1200? That would be a factor also.

I have no doubt that the drive by wire is the biggest culprit here. I’m sure the tuners will get it figured out. Possibly a clutching change is in order? I heard this thing has an engagement under 2000 rpm? Is that true? If so that would be one of the first things to address.

 

[Hammer70]

I tend to agree it’s not completely the issue, but it’s a fact that the less volume between the intake valve and the butterflies will give better transient response.

I think the fact that the 1200 is a larger motor with increased power down in the lower rpm’s range (Dare I say more TORQUE?) it has the ability to quickly pull up rpm quicker. The larger 1200 engine would be less susceptible to large plenum/runner volumes causing poor transient response.

I’ve experimented on my turbo viper with different clutch setups and this has a lot to do with it also, of course you know this.

I’m sure the compression on the 900t is lower than an N/A 1200? That would be a factor also.

I have no doubt that the drive by wire is the biggest culprit here. I’m sure the tuners will get it figured out. Possibly a clutching change is in order? I heard this thing has an engagement under 2000 rpm? Is that true? If so that would be one of the first things to address.

I totally agree with you’re theory

 

[74Nitro]

Every Doo made has a performance designed intake with TB's right next to the cylinders, Just like all YAM intake designs, with the exception of their 4s engines. DOO 4s will never have instant snap when throttle is cracked quickly. The Turbo version has made the thumb/engine relationship worse then previous NA DOO4s. No matter how much you try to program (reprogram) how quickly the butterfly moves in relationship to your thumb, you still have a 'too long' intake tract which is a far too long distance to travel resulting in a throttle delay.

Doo made the decision to mount ALL their engines low and upright on all their sleds, which works well on their 2s engines since the 2s is not as tall and the stacked clutches/Jshaft location allow for the TB's to be attached directly to the engine. However on their 4s engine this way of mounting their engines will not allow for the TB to be mounted closely, as the Jshaft is there. Doo made a long plastic intake that snakes over and around the Jshaft. Yamaha mounts the engines reverse allowing for performance and then tilts the engine giving a low CG as the rods do not travel vertically like the DOO does, giving the feel of low CG.

No 4s DOO will ever have a snappy instant throttle until someone changes the intake length. And DOO could care less about this, they sell their 4s to guys who tour and ride with their wives and "get used to" the poor thumb to engine connection. So DOO reads how all their owners think the throttle is fine, and how many they sell...no reason for DOO to change a thing. The DOO 2s is the only sleds they sell with a true snappy/instant throttle. Otherwise if you want a 4s you need to buy a Viper if you want instant Throttle in NA, or Winder for a Performance Turbo.

Dan

View attachment 148907

Not only is it too long, look at all the volume in there. That is all dead air so to speak that has to be gobbled up before the turbo-pressurized air can get to where it needs to be.