Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

[ClutchMaster]

Not only is it too long, look at all the volume in there. That is all dead air so to speak that has to be gobbled up before the turbo-pressurized air can get to where it needs to be.

Longer runners actually tend to give more low end grunt with a sacrifice at maximum horsepower. Smaller plenums tend to do the same thing.

Nitro don’t take this wrong but your analogy is incorrect.

The air in the intake manifold is at a vacuum, when you snap the blade open on the TB there is no boost on the other side of the blades, the turbo needs to spool up first.
A large TB will allow the manifold to fill with atmospheric pressure quickly.
the cylinders ability to fill is only at atmospheric pressure until the turbo can spool and make boost. Every time you let off the throttle the BOV opens dumping intake tract pressure so it won’t blow backwards through the turbo compressor wheel.
Now when your back on the gas the turbo has to fill the intercooler, all the piping and the manifold.
That’s part of the equation for turbo lag. So technically a huge intercooler and pipes would really increase turbo lag, but in reality you can’t even notice the difference.
During this time the motor is operating as an N/A motor until boost builds back up.
I highly doubt the intake track volume is the main issue here, it’s not optimal but it really sounds more like clutching and a slowly reacting electronic TB.

Letting the engine rpm increase quickly to around let’s say 5500 rpm really helps the turbo spool fast and can cut the “lag” in half but it will kill your fuel economy.
I’m willing to bet that TD and Hurricane will have the throttle ciphered out and with a corresponding clutch kit the issue will be gone, M2C

 

[74Nitro]

Longer runners actually tend to give more low end grunt with a sacrifice at maximum horsepower. Smaller plenums tend to do the same thing.

Nitro don’t take this wrong but your analogy is incorrect.

The air in the intake manifold is at a vacuum, when you snap the blade open on the TB there is no boost on the other side of the blades, the turbo needs to spool up first.
A large TB will allow the manifold to fill with atmospheric pressure quickly.
the cylinders ability to fill is only at atmospheric pressure until the turbo can spool and make boost. Every time you let off the throttle the BOV opens dumping intake tract pressure so it won’t blow backwards through the turbo compressor wheel.
Now when your back on the gas the turbo has to fill the intercooler, all the piping and the manifold.
That’s part of the equation for turbo lag. So technically a huge intercooler and pipes would really increase turbo lag, but in reality you can’t even notice the difference.
During this time the motor is operating as an N/A motor until boost builds back up.
I highly doubt the intake track volume is the main issue here, it’s not optimal but it really sounds more like clutching and a slowly reacting electronic TB.

Letting the engine rpm increase quickly to around let’s say 5500 rpm really helps the turbo spool fast and can cut the “lag” in half but it will kill your fuel economy.
I’m willing to bet that TD and Hurricane will have the throttle ciphered out and with a corresponding clutch kit the issue will be gone, M2C

The air in the 900T manifold is at a vacuum, but this is not the case with the Winder due to the superior layout which maintains an 'ideal pressure' that gives it the instant response.
I've observed this while riding, even at slower speeds/throttle openings. The boost readout is always showing a small amount of boost.
The large manifold and intake runners are a total waste of space on the 900T as far as I'm concerned. The Winder has no tuned intake runners like the ones pictured inside the 900T's airbox, and neither does it have an airbox between the turbo and throttle butterflies. Yet, it is clearly the superior layout.
If the aftermarket came out with a low volume manifold for the 900T (for between the throttlebody and cylinder head) I'm really think it would perform better.

 

[ClutchMaster]

The air in the 900T manifold is at a vacuum, but this is not the case with the Winder due to the superior layout which maintains an 'ideal pressure' that gives it the instant response.
I've observed this while riding, even at slower speeds/throttle openings. The boost readout is always showing a small amount of boost.
The large manifold and intake runners are a total waste of space on the 900T as far as I'm concerned. The Winder has no tuned intake runners like the ones pictured inside the 900T's airbox, and neither does it have an airbox between the turbo and throttle butterflies. Yet, it is clearly the superior layout.
If the aftermarket came out with a low volume manifold for the 900T (for between the throttlebody and cylinder head) I'm really think it would perform better.

That’s a good in theory, but it’s really not that noticeable to your average driver. Every single car I can think of uses an intake manifold configuration like the 900t.

Also longer runners make more low end torque, individual throttle body setups tend to make better peak horsepower, even then, there is not a huge difference between them.

One of the biggest reasons to use an individual throttle body setup is equal flow distribution. Intake manifolds tend to deliver uneven flows causing afr differences between cylinders, especially at high rpm’s.

Many many many, in fact, the majority of professional races use intake manifolds opposed to individual TB’s.

I would be willing to bet if the 900t had individual TB’s in conjunction with the electronic throttle the problem would still persist.

 

[krm]

That’s a good in theory, but it’s really not that noticeable to your average driver. Every single car I can think of uses an intake manifold configuration like the 900t.

Also longer runners make more low end torque, individual throttle body setups tend to make better peak horsepower, even then, there is not a huge difference between them.

One of the biggest reasons to use an individual throttle body setup is equal flow distribution. Intake manifolds tend to deliver uneven flows causing afr differences between cylinders, especially at high rpm’s.

Many many many, in fact, the majority of professional races use intake manifolds opposed to individual TB’s.

I would be willing to bet if the 900t had individual TB’s in conjunction with the electronic throttle the problem would still persist.

Just ck out TD and Hurricanes videos of tuned 900ts being tested .NO lag in my 900t with the newest TD 210 tune ,and im not the average clutching Guru ,been at it for 40+ yrs .Not many have the latest TD or Hurricane tunes .

 

[74Nitro]

That’s a good in theory, but it’s really not that noticeable to your average driver. Every single car I can think of uses an intake manifold configuration like the 900t.

Also longer runners make more low end torque, individual throttle body setups tend to make better peak horsepower, even then, there is not a huge difference between them.

One of the biggest reasons to use an individual throttle body setup is equal flow distribution. Intake manifolds tend to deliver uneven flows causing afr differences between cylinders, especially at high rpm’s.

Many many many, in fact, the majority of professional races use intake manifolds opposed to individual TB’s.

I would be willing to bet if the 900t had individual TB’s in conjunction with the electronic throttle the problem would still persist.

Not that I want to toot Yamaha's horn here because they do a lot of things wrong, but their layout isn't like every single car - and that's a good thing.
When Yamaha developed the Winder turbo engine, they really put a lot of thought into the intake design to get instant response. They got it right.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Not that I want to toot Yamaha's horn here because they do a lot of things wrong, but their layout isn't like every single car - and that's a good thing.
When Yamaha developed the Winder turbo engine, they really put a lot of thought into the intake design to get instant response. They got it right.

That’s all great, remember it’s an advertisement. They make the BOV sound as if it’s a state of the art piece, in reality it works exactly the same as my viper BOV, or any other BOV for that matter.
They make it sound so much better, in reality it’s not much different than my Turbo Viper.
The stock Winder turbo is actually kind of a piece of junk by today’s standards.
The instant response has ALOT more to do with the tiny little turbo being used along with the roller secondary and smaller cams.
Putting an intake manifold and single TB on a Winder would practically be unnoticeable IMO.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

Just ck out TD and Hurricanes videos of tuned 900ts being tested .NO lag in my 900t with the newest TD 210 tune ,and im not the average clutching Guru ,been at it for 40+ yrs .Not many have the latest TD or Hurricane tunes .

Had the opportunity to see a 19 900t and a 19 srx fully setup by Turbo Dynamics while up in Quebec right after Xmas. The 900t was around 190-195 hp and the srx was a custom 300hp setup. There are no words to describe the SRX but completely INSANE. The skidoo also ran flawlessly.
TD IMO has the there Tunes right for both manufacturers.
Man was that SRX SOMETHING TO SEE ON SNOW.

 

[Turboflash]

Fuel mileage is really more of a clutching thing. Tunes can help a little, but the factory has usually got this pretty close.
Some quick spool tunes are worse mileage due to the fact a rich mixture helps spool the turbo quicker.

Long strokes and small camshafts make for a good “mileage motor”. Longer stroke engines tend to be more efficient at lower rpm’s, extracting more power from the same amount fuel. Different strokes for different folks!

Not buying a turbo sled for the mileage, but hey that’s me.

Amen Clutchmaster!
Gotta get real, who buys a stock 180-200 HP turbo sled for good mileage?! Seriously? If you really want to save gas, don't buy a snowmobile and stay home. One other reason flashed turbo sleds CAN get better-than-stock mileage is, of course, the flashed turbo sled has much more HP so you need less throttle to go any given normal trail speed. For example, at 60 MPH I might need 30% less throttle with my flashed 290 HP motor than someone with a stock 200 HP motor. That difference really matters. And, on the other end, if I ride at speeds that require higher throttle openings, my flashed motor will consume allot more fuel than a stock sled in most cases. I don't care. Like Clutchmaster says, I didn't buy a turbo sled to save gas!
"He who burns the most gas is having the most fun."

 

[Yamajon1]

Till your walking.........(LOL)

 

[stevewithOCD]

SOOOOOOOOO
Has anyone tried a real short intake on the T?
Will it help with some tuning?
Is anybody listening to me?
I'm just not feeling the Luv on this thread anymore

 

[ClutchMaster]

SOOOOOOOOO
Has anyone tried a real short intake on the T?
Will it help with some tuning?
Is anybody listening to me?
I'm just not feeling the Luv on this thread anymore

I assume nobody makes one.

Sorry about your feelings of rejection but there’s probably 3 maybe 4 people actually reading this.

If it helps any, I love you.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Let’s see what’s really going on inside that OCD mind of yours....
...View attachment 148906
I think you had better go to the nearest Yamaha dealer ASAP!
The Ski-doo cancer is out of control!
I’m sure there’s treatment options for you. Im no doctor but I would think moving to the North Pole and riding a Sidewinder every day until the tumor changes into a SW is a good start imo.
Modify you diet? No Koolaid?

I’m worried about your health ^^^^^^ that means I care!

Just having fun OCD

 

[Motorhead]

Had the opportunity to see a 19 900t and a 19 srx fully setup by Turbo Dynamics while up in Quebec right after Xmas. The 900t was around 190-195 hp and the srx was a custom 300hp setup. There are no words to describe the SRX but completely INSANE. The skidoo also ran flawlessly.
TD IMO has the there Tunes right for both manufacturers.
Man was that SRX SOMETHING TO SEE ON SNOW.

That Blue and White color scheme on those 19 SRX’s really look good on the snow. My favorite looking sled at this point. And with 300 ponies... Nice!!!

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

That Blue and White color scheme on those 19 SRX’s really look good on the snow. My favorite looking sled at this point. And with 300 ponies... Nice!!!

The SRX owner was from Ont
A lot of winders from that area run Quebec early in Dec.

 

[Motorhead]

The SRX owner was from Ont
A lot of winders from that area run Quebec early in Dec.

I was not very impressed with those stock white accent parts when I first saw the SRX on the showroom floor. But once seen on the snow, it changed my mind for sure.