results from "speed ring" test

[SuperStroker!]

Thanks jtssrx.

I know this will spark debate and questions but I'm ready!

 

[Bob Miller]

Super Stroker,
What is your opinion on Blackjohn's inexpensive method of huge performance gains by changing the primary spring to the mountain spring and shimming the secondary with washers for overdrive! THANKS!

 

[SuperStroker!]

Blackjohn?

I can't seem to find his original post?

I need to know what the rate, pretension@ installed height and the full shift tension of both springs are in order to make a comment.

I'd be glad to give it a shot if I had that info.

 

[jtssrx]

the mountain spring is a 142 total force and the 121 RX-1 comes with a 119 total force spring.

 

[Bob Miller]

SuperStroker here is some feedback on results of using the Mountain spring in the primary and shimming the secondary:

From: IBABAD1
To: Bob Miller
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:26 am
Subject: clutch

First, I did try the spring without the washers. Just the spring the rpms
went up to 10500-10600 and held pretty good. The top end increased
to 110 area. With the washers added the rpm was the same but
the top end went to 118 area, and it did seem to pull better above 100.
I was pulling away from the F-7 in a major way above 110.
Second, I should explain that I only use a RADAR GUN and SPEED
CHECK. The speedo is way off. I have seen 129 and 131 with this
set up on the speedometor. I use to see 112-115 before set up.
Secondary spring was set at 6-3. I think 6-1 would be better but the
ice didn't hold up at Phatmans.

Black John keeps me busy with his things he tries out. Do you live around Michigan area?
Next year will be real good for YAMAHA's. C U Later Dave

 

[SuperStroker!]

So you picked up 8 MPH just by shimming the helix up? Wow, that seems like a lot, since you didn't gain any RPM? We're you limited by space to pull the top end? Did you run farther on the 118mph pass?

This is where I'm getting a little confused with these setups, I never hear anybody say the RPMs hover around 9800 on the shift and continue to rise the longer you pull down the lake.

I have to ask more questions here.

1- What was the rate, pretension and full shift tension of the stock spring?

2- What is the rate, pretension and full shift tension of the mountain spring?

3- What is the elevation where you ran, roughly... and did you do make all these passes within an hour or so of one another. I mean, you didn't make the slower passes in the heat of the day and the faster passes at dusk or at night did you?

4- Did the buttons touch the helix in neutral, after you installed the shims under the helix?

5- What spring did you run in the secondary.

6-Stock helix or billet and what is the angle of the helix?

7- What gear are you running and what size drivers does the RX-1 run, since I'm not sure myself?

8- Was there any head wind that day, if so, did it change when you made the faster passes?

E-mail me if you dont want to give out this info for some reason. I have to get at least this much info and think about this a bit.

 

[Bob Miller]

Superstroker as you can see this was a post sent to me From: IBABAD1
He had gotten this setup from blackjohn so he could possibly give you the details that you are looking for.
I have made the changes to my Warrior but I have not tried it yet! Will be going to Quebec on Jan 8th and I will post the results of this setup on my sled.

 

[Buckeye]

Stock pri spring is 35/118
Mtn pri spring is 35/142

Stock drivers are 9 tooth, 8 on Mtn sleds

 

[black john]

speed ring

i know that the speed ring lifts the helx off of the buttons thats why i chose to use washers to ajust the helx out for o/d and if you were any kind of a yamaha tuner you would all ready know what an o/s/o spring is all so every one who has tryed this set up has found the exat same results to the t and it costs me more to post this than the set up costs as i sell nothing its all stk yamaha parts for a total cost of about 18-20$ us stk helx stk spring just three 5/16 washers and an o/s/o spring cost per gain is very low. this is a mega low buck set up that works. no smoke and mirrors no bolts/allen bolts to play with.

 

[Bob Miller]

God Bless You blackjohn for giving us this potential for great performance gains at a very inexpensive price! It's great to know people like you that are willing to share this very valuable information that is a result of all of the research and testing that you do! I look forward to trying this setup on my 04 Warrior and experiencing what IBABAD1 has.

blackjohn and everyone I wish you all a Happy New Year as we smoke the competition!

 

[SuperStroker!]

Re: speed ring

i know that the speed ring lifts the helx off of the buttons thats why i chose to use washers to ajust the helx out for o/d and if you were any kind of a yamaha tuner you would all ready know what an o/s/o spring is all so every one who has tryed this set up has found the exat same results to the t and it costs me more to post this than the set up costs as i sell nothing its all stk yamaha parts for a total cost of about 18-20$ us stk helx stk spring just three 5/16 washers and an o/s/o spring cost per gain is very low. this is a mega low buck set up that works. no smoke and mirrors no bolts/allen bolts to play with.

Blackjohn-

I'm not questioning your products, tuning prowess, professionalism, honesty, integrity or your results! As a matter of fact, I'm trying to support you and your claims by trying to understand for myself and in a helpful way through conversation with others here on this site, why what you might be claiming could be true!

So instead of giving me and others here a cost analysis of your products and insulting me for trying to help myself and others here understand your idea>>>>

Maybe you could play along and humor us with you superior expertise and join the discussion in a helpful way?

Afterall, i think this is what the creator of this site intended.

Thanks John.

 

[black john]

clutching

for under $20.00 us give it a try you mite like it. i sell no products here just pick up a O/S/O spring at your dealer and some 5/16 washers at a hardware store and go play. its fun when you surprize the local sled heads at the strip. i like to do one run blow there in the weeds then drive away see ya

 

[Frostbite]

You had to know this question was coming.

What thickness of 5/16" washers should be used?

Should/can you use them with a Dalton (or other aftermarket helix) that is already machined to shift out further? If so, should the washers be thinner?

What secondary spring and setting is used with this setup? I have been using the Yamaha silver @ 80 degrees with good results but if the stocker works better............

Thanks

Frosty

 

[black john]

clutching

5/16 washers are about 1mm -1.5 mm stk secondary sping at 60- 70 deg after market helx,s have o/d built in to them already but as long as you dont lift the helx off of the sliders it still will work