Ride or Bust...Apex XTX rides terrible even with Star Kit.

[Elton Buss]

My friend installed the W2 144 skid in his 12 xtx nytro. We ride tug hill NY and that suspension is fantastic in the trails 2' whoops to stutter bumps never a bad ride. He didn't like the new air system so he bought an electric air pump on line and hooked it up to the rear shock. Don't think that suspension won't work on trails. The reason for the floating rear axle is for track tension issues.

 

[Redbeard]

My friend installed the W2 144 skid in his 12 xtx nytro. We ride tug hill NY and that suspension is fantastic in the trails 2' whoops to stutter bumps never a bad ride. He didn't like the new air system so he bought an electric air pump on line and hooked it up to the rear shock. Don't think that suspension won't work on trails. The reason for the floating rear axle is for track tension issues.

I agree. I've had a 151" M10 W2 in my Vector for 5 years. It works great on trail and has proven to be very reliable, but the M20 is better...on trail. I do prefer the W2 over the M20 for off trail and running the fields. It has more adjustability than the M20, but takes more time to dial in. You also have to carry wrenches to change the rear shock angle for varying conditions, the M20 you do not. The M20 is a better trail choice, especially the newer Platinum Spec version with a single, rear air spring. Too bad it's only offered in 136" max. I would have preferred keeping my 144" track, but I dropped to 136" and lost 3.75" in distance back to the rear axle. It's noticeable when looking at the factory tunnel 144" extension, but it doesn't look too bad.

Either way, an on board compressor is THE only way to go! You will thank yourself for the time spent installing it and so will your friends...as I learned the first trip. They were ready to toss me into the woods for stopping and getting out the hand pump and tools at every stop.

 

[Roost 'Er]

I agree. I've had a 151" M10 W2 in my Vector for 5 years. It works great on trail and has proven to be very reliable, but the M20 is better...on trail. I do prefer the W2 over the '20 for off trail and running the fields. It has more adjustability than the '20, but takes more time to dial in. You also have to carry wrenches to change the rear shock angle for varying conditions, the M20 you do not. The M20 is a better trail choice, especially the newer Platinum Spec version with a single, rear air spring. Too bad it's only offered in 136" max. I would have preferred keeping my 144 track, but I dropped to 136". I lost 3.75" in distance back to the rear axle. It's noticeable when looking at the factory tunnel extension, but it doesn't look too bad.

Either way, an on board compressor is THE only way to go! You will thank yourself for the time spent installing it and so will your friends...as I learned the first trip. They were ready to toss me into the woods for stopping and getting out the hand pump and tools at every stop.
View attachment 115962

NS- One question for you: We run studs on all our sleds, I see the clearance is limited between the exhaust and the track do you think it's possible to run studs or will we need to lower the rear drop brackets ?

My friend installed the W2 144 skid in his 12 xtx nytro. We ride tug hill NY and that suspension is fantastic in the trails 2' whoops to stutter bumps never a bad ride. He didn't like the new air system so he bought an electric air pump on line and hooked it up to the rear shock. Don't think that suspension won't work on trails. The reason for the floating rear axle is for track tension issues.

Thanks for the input on the W2, he's reluctant to consider a track swap so the 144 W2 is still an option.

I really like the adjustability of the 136, but it's another expense buying a track and studding it.

 

[Elton Buss]

I Would not use an m20 or w2 without an air compressor onboard. I also have a good friend with an 09 nytro xtx that went with Hygear shock revalve and triple rate springs. The ride was a lot better than stock but nowhere close to the fast suspension. And very close in money spent. I have a friend with 2012 apex xtx that I drove 250 miles in Maine last week and the only thing I can say is that engine with the exup valve is so sweet, but i never had to pee so much on the trails in my life the stutter bumps bounced the heck out of me. I told my friend this sled has to change.

 

[Redbeard]

NS- One question for you: We run studs on all our sleds, I see the clearance is limited between the exhaust and the track do you think it's possible to run studs or will we need to lower the rear drop brackets ?

That's a very good question! I don't run studs, but my good friend, Soldiers Papa does with his 128" M20. I do not believe he has any issues with clearance. I'm sure he wouldn't mind you sending him a PM for a direct reference.

On a side note, Tracks USA makes extensions for Team Fast rails that could turn a 136 into a 144. Fast does not recommend using them, but it's an option?? I think the biggest reason is they throw off the suspension geometry, but I'm not sure either.

Personally, I'm not a fan of extensions, but there's alot of them out there.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

That's a very good question! I don't run studs, but my good friend, Soldiers Papa does with his 128" M20. I do not believe he has any issues with clearance. I'm sure he wouldn't mind you sending him a PM for a direct reference.

On a side note, Tracks USA makes extensions for Team Fast rails that could turn a 136 into a 144. Fast does not recommend using them, but it's an option?? I think the biggest reason is they throw off the suspension geometry, but I'm not sure either.

Personally, I'm not a fan of extensions, but there's alot of them out there.

I ran studs in the stock track for my first season with the M-20 without issue. This past off season I switched out the track to a 1.22" Ice Attack pre-studded track because of the usuall risks that are always present when running studs. The only advantage I can see to using conventional studs would be drag racing on ice. That is not my style of snowmobiling so the Ice Attack was the perfect option. If your dad likes using studs and a track swap is in his future, this could be the logical choice.

HTH!

 

[Rich Kay]

I put a M-10 air on my 121 Apex (07) and it was the single most improvement for any dollar I ever spent on sled in 40 yrs of riding. It was the only area I felt my Apex really lacking in as I had spent more hours than I care to mention working with the Pro Action skid that came in my Apex. Shock re-valve from one end of the chart to the other...Center shock spring changes... broken rear arm replacements. I never thought I would spend 1500 on a rear suspension but I was more than willing at this point! The sled rides so well IMO that I just cant get interested in buying anything new. Hope this helps with that what may be a big decision for some but for me it was well worth it!

 

[maim]

I had the exact same problem as your father.
Background
Had a 2006 apex er with revalved front and rear shocks with aftermarket mono spring. The thing rode fantastic and I proceeded to put over 30000 kms on the machine in total comfort. This past fall I purchased a new 2012 apex xtx and hated the way it rode. I could not compress the rear suspension more than half an inch and it would throw me off the seat on any bump more than 6inches. In desperation after reading many posts about the star kit, I put one on my sled hoping it would help. I did not get my shocks revalved but did get the heavier front spring.
Unfortunately the machine still rode like a brick. When sitting on the machine i could not compress the rear suspension More than one inch. The back end sat up so high it put too much weight on the skis. I ended up taking the stock torsion springs off and putting on the optional 1100 nm springs from yamaha.
What an improvement. I now have 4 to 5 inches of sit in on the rear suspension and the sled is level when riding it. Handling is vastly improved also. It rides close to what my my mono used too so I'm happy.However it will bottom out easily on bigger bumps but absorbs the small chop nicely. Hoping to get the shock revalved in the summer and get the torsion spring blocks that have the higher settings on them and I should be done with it.
By the way I weigh 220 and the stock springs should have worked for me but it didn't. I run the clicker on 2 up from hard and springs on highest setting. Front spring tightened to middle of threads on shock.
Sled transfers awesome but from rolling start at 20kmh and nailing it, it rocks back in the suspension and only picks skis off the ground 2 to 4 inches and hooks up great. 171 studs up middle.
Sorry for the long winded post but I hope this helps you.
If only we could get more snow.
Cheers.

I also had to do this to my sled as it was beating the crap out of me in the stutters. did not go the star route though as I like the front spring rate on the skid shock. still need to fix the valving on its next rebuild. using the 5 position muffin works adjusters with the stock nitro xtx springs but the viper 4 position ones work as well. ended up with gytr clickers on the front as they where valved too soft as well. I am 5'6" and weigh in the 250lb range without gear. no studs either as I never need them.

 

[Sasquatch]

At over 300 pds and 6'5"you would think if anyone had a bottoming out on the seat it would be me. I'm at a loss!

 

[Mike P]

I must say I totally agree on how hard it is on the back. Mine is boosted and I love the power etc but I'm beet up all the time. Even spent coin on star kit and Elka shocks all the way around. Still kills me. I ran the wife's viper this weekend and it's so much easier on the back. No where near the yamaha quality but it doesn't kill your back. Not sure an apex can ever eat bumps the same. I would love to find the solution

I have a 2014 viper RTX-SE, stock a little slower than an Apex. Came off riding Apexes, 137"-128" track and also a 121" track. The 2011 Apes SE 128" with EPS was fast and great on smooth trails but when it got ruff it beat me up. Put a turbo (with gears and clutch) in the Viper and got my speed back. Have never been happier. Handling, comfort and speed, it is a bit of a gas hog if I'm on the boost. The Viper is a little trickier to personalize for handling. Am still dialing the Viper in, only 1200 miles on her but am having more fun all day and night. I ride with Apexes all the time and some of the riders are beat up and some are not. I think it really depends on your body type and riding style.

 

[Redbeard]

I finally found them, so here you go Rooster! Here are some other options for a 2011 - 2015 Apex XTX. Pretty sweet!

http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/2011-apex-xtx-suspension-conversion.111551/

http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/2011-apex-xtx-suspension-conversion-2.112027/#post-995670

 

[UP Michigan rider]

The Apex was never meant to be a Honda goldwing version of a snowmobile. It is was designed to be the R1 sportbike version of a snowmobile. Its a 160 HP monster designed to go balls to the wall. When I see bumps coming I stand up a bit (like motocross) and let my legs absorb the shock. This is just a natural reaction for me. Yamaha has a lot of other sleds for comfort. I weigh 170 pounds and I have no problems. I just got done riding every day for a week in the U.P. But I RIDE I don't go for a cruise. When I get older you can bet I am going to get a "gold wing" with a back rest and the whole 9 yards! "Luxurious two-up seat, integrated storage, power steering and precise Tuner skis provide the foundation for the most advanced touring snowmobile."

 

[fast n furious]

The Apex was never meant to be a Honda goldwing version of a snowmobile. It is was designed to be the R1 sportbike version of a snowmobile. Its a 160 HP monster designed to go balls to the wall. When I see bumps coming I stand up a bit (like motocross) and let my legs absorb the shock. This is just a natural reaction for me. Yamaha has a lot of other sleds for comfort. I weigh 170 pounds and I have no problems. I just got done riding every day for a week in the U.P. But I RIDE I don't go for a cruise. When I get older you can bet I am going to get a "gold wing" with a back rest and the whole 9 yards! "Luxurious two-up seat, integrated storage, power steering and precise Tuner skis provide the foundation for the most advanced touring snowmobile."

Nobody rides any harder than me and the group I hang with all 300 hp sleds and we use all of it. There is no question it's a great performer. But the ride is harsh is all we are saying and somehow we would like to make it better. Tough as nails and great guality just harsh in stutter bumps. Cheers

 

[baggs66]

Make sure your front cross shaft isn't mounted upside Down and hitting shock dealer installed friends wrong way after revalve and it rode terrible.

 

[ApexM10]

Background:
2012 Apex XTX, 3000km owned it since 1000km.
Star Rear Suspension Kit, Ohlins Front Shocks.
Last season we constantly were trying new set-ups trying to find that happy medium from changing limiter settings, pre-load on springs, shock adjustment...

This sled is my fathers sled, he absolutely loves the motor and handling however the ride is almost unbearable. After 150-200+ mile days his back is toast. The sled seems to be very abrupt in the rear suspension and bucks driving your tail into the seat. The seat itself also seems like it needs more padding as it feels like your completely compressing the foam and hitting the inner pan. Its not so much even the larger 1' moguls but the sled is jarring on the shutters as well. Overall the sled has been a marginal improvement over his previous sled (Attak GT).,

My question is: Unbiased and honest can this sled ride equivalent to other manufacturers long track sleds such as Pro-S Switchback, R-Motion Renegade or Pro-Cross 137" cat, and if so what does it take.

Our current dilemma:

Spend $3000-4000 (CND Dollar sucks) on a Team Fast M10 W2 144", and possibly Front Shocks, WRP 2" Seat Kit to get this sled to ride.

OR

Cut his loses, sell the sled and unfortunately move to another manufacturer in search of a better riding sled.

I realize the fit and finish on the others is garbage, motors will rattle, shake and vibrate molars loose and we will never find a substitute for the buttery smooth Yamaha mill. But having a sore back at the end of the day takes the enjoyment out of snowmobiling.

I run a 2015 Apex XTX. I put fox float 3s on front and put the M10 Air 144" on the back. Absolutely love the ride and handling. My buddies that run the r-motion renegade and procross 137 say my setup is amazing. I would keep your current reliable sled and upgrade to M10 suspension. If you got the extra cash throw fox float 3s on the front.