kviper if that was totally true about Yamaha looking out for their customers then we all would have fuel shutoffs from the factory. They have not addressed a problem that would very easily be fixed.
kviper
VIP Member
I should not even say this because you know what will happen but i have never had a problem. And i don't ever recal any friend's ever having a problem with other brand'e as well. I do know it can happen and has. But in reality the real problem is with poor needle and seat's, Not sealing,Weak spring's ect and are likley not performing well in running cond either. I know it would not take much to put valves on. I hear stories from my dealer that sell's two other brand's about some ot the issue's they have with the other company's and after hearing those stories Yamaha don't look to bed. Just my opinion and you are welcome to your's as well.
vtrxrider
Extreme
Someone gave the possibility of timing which was my first choice. If you ever took a turbo saab up the road with the timinig off you would find it ran fairly well but lacked in power. Open the hood to find the hot smell and find the turbo cherry red in only a couple of miles! Just one possibility but timing should not be overlooked....ECU, tors, etc.
smokeless1
Pro
LazyBastard said:
LB-
Sled was completely stock. It had rear heat exchanger on, and antifreeze changed (concentration brought back to sane numbers) and fuel shut offs installed and carb coolant shut-set at 7/8 off with outside temps at or around 20 degrees.
No Mods.
I second that! I trailered the Warrior 5 months last year, NEVER had any problem what so ever! Because one has a problem doesn't mean that it will happen to us all, allthough we can keep an eye on it! Just don't go crazy over every little thing that happens! :shock: All these problems you guys are having, I've never even heard of in the 18 years I have been snowmobiling! Of course, shait happens, but you're crying wolf a bit soon?kviper said:
Just go out enjoy the wonderful machines they are! 
Just my opinion......
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
smokeless1 said:
This is what happened... YOU FROZE UP THE CARBS!
Ice, float stuck, too much gas, fouled plug, dumped in still lots of gas, BOOM!
smokeless1
Pro
LazyBastard said:
No Mods
LB-
This is what happened... YOU FROZE UP THE CARBS!
Ice, float stuck, too much gas, fouled plug, dumped in still lots of gas, BOOM!
Not buying that, and here is why.
We pulled the machine from the cargo trailer where machine was stored. Warmed it up for 5 minutes. Ran down the farm road one mile to the gas station and fueled up. We headed down the trail, and about one mile later, the whole event happened.
Had we been bombing down the road for miles and miles, in icey cold temps I could say, maybe you're right. But this happened so quickly with perhaps two miles of running from trailer to event, that I just can't believe this was it.
Also the carb shut-offs was set to 7/8 closure.
And the temp was around 20 degrees.
And we have done this same thing maybe a 1/2 dozen times before. Nothing was different.
And finally, frozen floats, water in the bowls, etc would have put out far more notice than a few burps and a couple pops.
Ever try and run with the choke on?? I know nether one of these 04 mountains will run for shik. Infact mine will stall out.
Dealer said that the only time they have seen this (indicating his dealership has seen this before) was when the fella left the choke on "by accident." I told the dealer mine would not run at all if I use the choke for more the 30 seconds on cold starts only.
This is perplexing, and I do not know why it did it, but I do know that we did nothing out of the ordinary, and we were traveling at around 20 mph, which means maybe 6k rpm. I was close enough to hear his engine and I did not hear anything out of the ordinary and only saw the sparks shooting out suddenly which was when we stopped.
Maybe a fluke. Maybe an issue that needs to be watched out for on all these sleds. Since these sleds are all built exactly the same, I would only hope that if it happens again, nobody gets burned up.
This leaves an uneasy feeling in my stomach, and I hope that people take this seriously. Never mind the machine, I am talking about somebody getting very hurt, innocently.
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JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
LazyBastard said:
I think you are
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exactly right.
Now that the sled has had the carb heaters modified, it's going to be interesting to see if Yamaha covers the damage under warranty.
kviper
VIP Member
Smokeless1 Was this your first ride of the season and if it was what did you do with the sled's as far as gas in the off season.
Pinball Wizzard
Pro
Working on cars we see this happen a lot. Pull into gas station get a bad tank of gas - water and crap settles to the bottom, within a few minutes or miles it gets pumped into carbs and gets stuck under needle or half full of water. I know they have filters under needle but it would'nt take much in these carbs to hold float open and if it only happened to one carb going down the trail it would probably run fairly decent. We see fuel injected cars come in with pressure regulators that have failed and because they control pressure by engine vaccum usually on the plain of one or two cyls, people have drove them in with two fouled plugs and gas running out the tail pipe and exhaust is cherry red, usually not on fire because of the amount of gas in exhaust, but have seen them stay red after they shut off for quite a while.
With so little clearance between exhaust and seat this would catch the seat on fire.
So carb or fuel injected when its not running right its up to use to stop and take a look why even if it means towing it home.
Personally I think these carbs even with the mtn update suck when on its side or coming down a steep incline, have had it flood and die, and it won't restart until you get it sideways to the hill or back on the flat.
Just my two cents worth.
With so little clearance between exhaust and seat this would catch the seat on fire.
So carb or fuel injected when its not running right its up to use to stop and take a look why even if it means towing it home.
Personally I think these carbs even with the mtn update suck when on its side or coming down a steep incline, have had it flood and die, and it won't restart until you get it sideways to the hill or back on the flat.
Just my two cents worth.
smokeless1
Pro
JDKRXW said:
That would be okay, if the carb heaters were modified, but they weren't modified and they only had a shut-off put on them so that in warmer weather you can start the hot carbs easier. Since hundreds of guys have these carb shut-offs, seems that this should not be the culprit, and the shut-off was open anyway, and this happened within one or one and one half miles of the gas station. Further, I fueled with the very same hose, don't you know, and if there was going to be a problem we would have both had it, at least likely, and this station sells tons of gas cause there are tons of sleds and locals using the pumps all the time.
No if Yamaha plays hard of hearing on this issue, they will be sued. And further, there have been more than just a couple of these sleds do exactly the same thing....catch on fire under the seat. I talked at length with one fella that had this happen and his sled had less than 100 miles on it.
So you think this was a fluke and it can't happen to you, or that you will catch it in time when and if it does happen. Sort of reminds me that some people believe that they are charmed and don't need to worry about anything.
Tho this was the first official ride of the season, the machine was started and run in June...added a heat exchanger, again in July, again in October, as it was moved to the cargo trailer, again, in November, and again in December started and moved out of the trailer and back into the trailer twice before the first ride. Fuel was reduced to half tank last spring, and carbs were run dry each time the machine was started and left to go more than 2 weeks. Plus there was no problems for one mile or so in front of the final fuel up at the gas station.
No I don't believe it was contiminated fuel, or bad fuel, either.
But here you have a exhaust pipe that runs the length of the sled and exits into a muffler that is under a foam rubber seat. If everything works as it should there is no troubles, as this sled and mine did all last winter. But when something goes wrong, then that is when you will wish your exhaust exited out the front like other sleds do it.
Carry a good fire extinguisher. Scouping snow doesn't do it.
When Carbs Ice it's not in the float bowl. This sled deosn't have an ecletric pump either. The bowls are filled by pulses pulled on the pumps by the clinders. I do not beleive the float was stuck open and it kept filling with fuel
I think he had a fowled plug. It filled the exhaust with raw fuel and when it got hot enough boom. the sparks were from peices of the seat melting off.
I've seen a Venture do this. It lost a cylinder and the guy didn't know it. He was rideing like 10 to 20 MPH. He thought it was loading up so he ignored it. the silencer filled with fuel and when it got hot enough Boom it went up in flames. it took snow and bottles of water to get it out!!!!!!!!!!
I think he had a fowled plug. It filled the exhaust with raw fuel and when it got hot enough boom. the sparks were from peices of the seat melting off.
I've seen a Venture do this. It lost a cylinder and the guy didn't know it. He was rideing like 10 to 20 MPH. He thought it was loading up so he ignored it. the silencer filled with fuel and when it got hot enough Boom it went up in flames. it took snow and bottles of water to get it out!!!!!!!!!!
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
The reason why this would not appear to be an issue is because NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE SHUT OFF THE COOLANT, so an infrequent issue with shutting off the fuel will not appear very often.
"carb heaters were modified" - that means that the coolant was blocked.
The reason why you could very easily have frozen up the carbs is because of what happens when GASES EXPAND. Think back to your high-school physics class. When you compress a gas, temp increases, when you expand it, it cools. Your motor is SUCKING HARD on the air at the front of the carbs, causing it to expand and drastically drop in temperature. The air in the carbs was very cold. Think -50 AT MOST, could be even lower, -100, -125? How long do you think it would take for water to freeze at -125 degrees? And your arguments about leaving the choke on are invalid, since that affects ALL FOUR carbs, rather than just freezing up ONE. It will run on 3 cylinders no question.
There is a reason why the carbs are heated. You have discovered it.
"carb heaters were modified" - that means that the coolant was blocked.
The reason why you could very easily have frozen up the carbs is because of what happens when GASES EXPAND. Think back to your high-school physics class. When you compress a gas, temp increases, when you expand it, it cools. Your motor is SUCKING HARD on the air at the front of the carbs, causing it to expand and drastically drop in temperature. The air in the carbs was very cold. Think -50 AT MOST, could be even lower, -100, -125? How long do you think it would take for water to freeze at -125 degrees? And your arguments about leaving the choke on are invalid, since that affects ALL FOUR carbs, rather than just freezing up ONE. It will run on 3 cylinders no question.
There is a reason why the carbs are heated. You have discovered it.
Pinball Wizzard
Pro
Not saying it was contaminated fuel but you did ask for some ideas . I don't care how much gas they sell or if you fueled off the same hose if you get to a station right after they had thier tanks filled it will stir up the bottom of the tank. I filled up at a gas station at the same pump once in the morning and then that afternoon and picked up enough sediment the second time to cause the float to stick. Never made it off thier lot. Only differance was the tanks had just been filled right before I got there the second time. Filled tow truck at least Six times a week at that station.
Having owned tow trucks for 14 years we have seen this happen more than once, if you see the tanker at a station try the next one.
Good luck with your problem hope Yamaha helps you out. Or if they find the exact cause we would all be interested. Thanks for the heads up.
Having owned tow trucks for 14 years we have seen this happen more than once, if you see the tanker at a station try the next one.
Good luck with your problem hope Yamaha helps you out. Or if they find the exact cause we would all be interested. Thanks for the heads up.
Carb Icing is usally a result of mosture in the air I would think that if one carbed iced all three would have iced.
