Just and FYI I have 2 freinds that have Bender Turbos. The turbos can reasch 1000 to 1500 degrees in temp and well as the header getting up to 2000 degrees. They never had a Fire issue.
I really belive you had raw fuel that ignited in the header. This would have caused a fire in a 2 stroke in the canister as well and would have stated the front end on fire. As I stated in a earlier post I had a freind start a old venture on fire. He bured a piston and itwas running on one cyilinder. the raw fuel fulled teh silencer and then it finaly got hot enough and caught fire.
I really belive you had raw fuel that ignited in the header. This would have caused a fire in a 2 stroke in the canister as well and would have stated the front end on fire. As I stated in a earlier post I had a freind start a old venture on fire. He bured a piston and itwas running on one cyilinder. the raw fuel fulled teh silencer and then it finaly got hot enough and caught fire.
smokeless1
Pro
Well, it seem that fuel definitely got back there. Question is why and what happened that would allow it to get there without knowing about it. And in such an event will you get a fire everytime that happens??
I'd say you were running on three or 2 cylinders. The fuel pushed out of the motor unburned and when it got hot enough the fumes ignited.
NOS2stage
Newbie
i dont by it, it would have ben so flooded that it would not of pulled it self around to get that much fuel...... the sparks before the flame sound more like the muffler started coming apart, then the seat started burning....
Smokeless1 I heard from my dealer today he claims Yamaha checked out the sled and determined that it was big time flooded and they are not going to cover it is this true, any updates?
Stormbringr1
Pro
Convert said:
Regardless...it's still a product liability issue. It is immaterial if it was flooded or not. The fact remains that the consumer of a product went about using that product for its intended purpose and without any negligence on his part in it's use...it started on fire...thereby destroying the product and subjecting the consumer to great personal risk of having his chestnuts roasted on an open fire... :shock:
I'd hire an Attorney, Smokeless. This is a typical garden-variety tactic on the part of the manufacturer to avoid any documented knowledge or culpability relating to a serious issue that has the real potential to cause serious injury or even death with others in the future... If there is a paper trail where they admit to any liability due to a design defect or responsibility for your sled going up in flames for any reason...then other's in the future will have a slam dunk negligence case against them if they don't take immediate action to correct whatever the problem is that could potentially cause such a fire.
If you press the issue...they will finally take care of you. The costs of defending a lawsuit would eat up the 10K you paid for your sled before they even got through reading the suit...
They're just testing you now to see if you will just go away...
Stormbringer1
I'm not dissagreeing with you just wanted to hear his side of the story
I would very much like to see this potential killer put to bed. I value my chestnuts 
I'm not dissagreeing with you just wanted to hear his side of the story
I would very much like to see this potential killer put to bed. I value my chestnuts Stormbringr1
Pro
Convert said:Stormbringer1
I'm not dissagreeing with you just wanted to hear his side of the story
I know Convert. I hope I didn't come off as lecturing you. It just bothers me sometimes the games that are played out there...especially when it involves high heat involuntarily applied to one's chestnuts... :shock: Keeps
sales up there, though!Maybe I'll see ya at the show!
5 more days Prairie Dog
Expert
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Messages
- 239
I just read this whole post for the first time. I'm with him and would suspect that the fire was going to happen anyway. Probably when you stopped for gas you are VERY lucky you didn't start the fire then because it was probably building heat as you were stopped. Then when you went again, enough heat was built to maybe flash to a certain extent with the air movement and start burning stuff. I wouldn't think a fire would start from scratch in 1.5 miles.
Good to check plug color once in a while to see the state of the mixture.
That's assuming there wasn't a mechanical default in the exhaust.
smokeless1
Pro
Update on the Seat fire.
First of all, I want to thank everyone here for their support, on this topic. It helps. I also want to thank everyone who chipped in and detailed out other "incidents' where the seat caught on fire. It also helped.
The sled is fixed, and it was covered by Yamaha, as a good faith fix. They were very careful not to say it was a warrantee issue. I know they knew what we all knew which was that this was something that is a potential problem with ALL these sleds out there. Therefore they tread the liability waters very very carefully.
I heard from my friend the details and here they are:
The sled has a very poor charging system. It puts out 25 watts charger, exactly like that of the motorcycle, but of course the motorcyle usage is not winter time, and there are no thumb or hand warmers using straight resistance heating to draw down the charging capacity. The tech actually said that the sled will discharge if you use high heat on the thumb and handles, and.....plug in a face shield.
Secondly that the computer brain that runs the engine (cpu), does NOT like low voltage. It will start, and it will run sometimes with lower voltage, but there is lots of troubles IF YOU HAVE A LOW battery. It will "do strange things" to quote the tech on this computer, and therefore is very sensitive to any voltage drops.
Further, right out of the barn, from the factory and dealer after initially taking it back when it was brand new, the machine was running very rich. He accepted this "rich" setting, as it is better for a sled to run rich if the sled is running hot, which these sleds were....remember all the trouble with the over heat issue, and yamaha coincidently designing an after the fact rear cooler?? So we left both of the sleds running rich at least for the short run with intent to lean them out after they had 500 miles on them. As it turns out the exchanger was installed, and the 100% antifreeze was replace with 50/50 mix so the rich setting could have been downed a bit at that point, but the sled had only 300 miles on it and so the plan was to wait a bit longer to adjust it down a bit. Mind you the sled ran fine, but the plugs were a bit on the dark side, nothing major, just not quite the straw color of an optimum setting.
Finally the tech said that the sled malfunctioned because the controller did not adjust properly, because of a low battery, and because the carbs were not set to an ideal setting.
In short they really didn't find any problem. However, now that the new sleds are out, please note that these machines are now going to efi. I know this is probably coincidence only, but perhaps yamaha decided that enough was enough and that putting those huge carbs on a sled with 3 valves without any control over how much fuel gets into the engine or out the exhaust, was not a very good idea.
So if you have a sled with carbs and aren't they all that way now....you might want to make sure that your battery is very up before leaving home. (I remember that a trickle charger was "highly recommended" by the dealer when the sled was purchased. Unfortunately, neither my friend nor I fully knew the significance of that statement until after the fire happened.) Believe me, I will not run mine with a battery that is discharged at all. Unfortunately, my sleds sit in trailers far from power sources, and the trickle is not an option. Never the less, jump starting the sled to start it is no longer an option I will take unless I can charge the heck out of the battery on the spot before a ride.
My friends sled is sold. He will not buy another Yamaha. He has no faith in the sleds, but sees the likelyhood of efi solving this potential time bomb issue. As for me, I will hang on to mine for another year perhaps two, and then get an efi model, or maybe an articat if they come along the 4 stroke lane fast enough.
I like my yamaha sled. But it isn't the end all nor is it the only manufacturer of 4 stroke sleds. I doubt I would by an Apex, but maybe a vector mountain, with efi. I can't go back to 2 stroke, for sure. I like 4 stroke machine way too much.
It was good of Yamaha to fix the sled, but they hasseled my friend way too much to make me comfortable, before fixing it. The dealer played NO part in backing away, infact they were great about it. But they are at the mercy of the manufacturer, and we all knew it.
Moral here is that if you hear the sled popping, backfiring, or the slightest sign that something is not right....get off and check stuff out. Nobody's sled is worth getting your butt burned up. Plastic fuel container is way too close to a seat fire to make for safe keeping. My friend is not going to sue, because he just doesn't believe in it. But hopefully this warning is something that will save somebody someday, and that is why I am telling this story. Stay awake, and alert to this possibility. This can got so hot that the aluminum shield that was between it and the seat actually fractured and then permitted the heat to go straight to the seat where a flimsy little aluminum foil cover sticky thing that is basically useless to fending off the heat was all that was left to keep the seat from catching fire. If you own 03,04,05 machines, you need to watch for this.
I feel that a bad plug, stuck carb, bad sparkplug wire all could have these same results. Time will tell. But I am glad that the big motor is getting efi, as I really believe this will save a burn, or better still save a life.
First of all, I want to thank everyone here for their support, on this topic. It helps. I also want to thank everyone who chipped in and detailed out other "incidents' where the seat caught on fire. It also helped.
The sled is fixed, and it was covered by Yamaha, as a good faith fix. They were very careful not to say it was a warrantee issue. I know they knew what we all knew which was that this was something that is a potential problem with ALL these sleds out there. Therefore they tread the liability waters very very carefully.
I heard from my friend the details and here they are:
The sled has a very poor charging system. It puts out 25 watts charger, exactly like that of the motorcycle, but of course the motorcyle usage is not winter time, and there are no thumb or hand warmers using straight resistance heating to draw down the charging capacity. The tech actually said that the sled will discharge if you use high heat on the thumb and handles, and.....plug in a face shield.
Secondly that the computer brain that runs the engine (cpu), does NOT like low voltage. It will start, and it will run sometimes with lower voltage, but there is lots of troubles IF YOU HAVE A LOW battery. It will "do strange things" to quote the tech on this computer, and therefore is very sensitive to any voltage drops.
Further, right out of the barn, from the factory and dealer after initially taking it back when it was brand new, the machine was running very rich. He accepted this "rich" setting, as it is better for a sled to run rich if the sled is running hot, which these sleds were....remember all the trouble with the over heat issue, and yamaha coincidently designing an after the fact rear cooler?? So we left both of the sleds running rich at least for the short run with intent to lean them out after they had 500 miles on them. As it turns out the exchanger was installed, and the 100% antifreeze was replace with 50/50 mix so the rich setting could have been downed a bit at that point, but the sled had only 300 miles on it and so the plan was to wait a bit longer to adjust it down a bit. Mind you the sled ran fine, but the plugs were a bit on the dark side, nothing major, just not quite the straw color of an optimum setting.
Finally the tech said that the sled malfunctioned because the controller did not adjust properly, because of a low battery, and because the carbs were not set to an ideal setting.
In short they really didn't find any problem. However, now that the new sleds are out, please note that these machines are now going to efi. I know this is probably coincidence only, but perhaps yamaha decided that enough was enough and that putting those huge carbs on a sled with 3 valves without any control over how much fuel gets into the engine or out the exhaust, was not a very good idea.
So if you have a sled with carbs and aren't they all that way now....you might want to make sure that your battery is very up before leaving home. (I remember that a trickle charger was "highly recommended" by the dealer when the sled was purchased. Unfortunately, neither my friend nor I fully knew the significance of that statement until after the fire happened.) Believe me, I will not run mine with a battery that is discharged at all. Unfortunately, my sleds sit in trailers far from power sources, and the trickle is not an option. Never the less, jump starting the sled to start it is no longer an option I will take unless I can charge the heck out of the battery on the spot before a ride.
My friends sled is sold. He will not buy another Yamaha. He has no faith in the sleds, but sees the likelyhood of efi solving this potential time bomb issue. As for me, I will hang on to mine for another year perhaps two, and then get an efi model, or maybe an articat if they come along the 4 stroke lane fast enough.
I like my yamaha sled. But it isn't the end all nor is it the only manufacturer of 4 stroke sleds. I doubt I would by an Apex, but maybe a vector mountain, with efi. I can't go back to 2 stroke, for sure. I like 4 stroke machine way too much.
It was good of Yamaha to fix the sled, but they hasseled my friend way too much to make me comfortable, before fixing it. The dealer played NO part in backing away, infact they were great about it. But they are at the mercy of the manufacturer, and we all knew it.
Moral here is that if you hear the sled popping, backfiring, or the slightest sign that something is not right....get off and check stuff out. Nobody's sled is worth getting your butt burned up. Plastic fuel container is way too close to a seat fire to make for safe keeping. My friend is not going to sue, because he just doesn't believe in it. But hopefully this warning is something that will save somebody someday, and that is why I am telling this story. Stay awake, and alert to this possibility. This can got so hot that the aluminum shield that was between it and the seat actually fractured and then permitted the heat to go straight to the seat where a flimsy little aluminum foil cover sticky thing that is basically useless to fending off the heat was all that was left to keep the seat from catching fire. If you own 03,04,05 machines, you need to watch for this.
I feel that a bad plug, stuck carb, bad sparkplug wire all could have these same results. Time will tell. But I am glad that the big motor is getting efi, as I really believe this will save a burn, or better still save a life.
LOL
What do you think he should sue for? It sounds like Yamaha fixed his sled.
What do you think he should sue for? It sounds like Yamaha fixed his sled.
F1Rocks
Veteran
smokeless1 said:
Okay, not to fan the fire here, so to speak but does this mean I can't run my sled for 300 miles today with the headlight on high beam, the hand warmers on full and my heated shield because the battery will run down.
I don't buy it. That means guys running these UPS lightweight batteries are screwed after running for a few hours. Yamaha has a marginal alternator...please someone tell me this isn't so.
I'm glad they fixed the sled for you. If he's lost faith in the sled then it's good he sold it. I will keep an ear out for any unusual popping and react accordingly but by golly I'll be running my handwarmers full whenever I please and take bets that the battery will be just fine.
Ingolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 40
ofcourse he shouldnt think about sueing, they fixed his sled. so something happened with the exhaust that was determined on the first page. it was obviously a one in a hundred thousand occurence. about the sled being unsafe? your travelling on a frozen lake at speeds in excess of 70+ mph, ofcourse its not safe. dont let one bad experience ruin your fun. yamaha is a great brand, not just for snowmobiles, but motorcycles, quads etc. if he goes to something else thats his choice. but switching brands doesnt make it any safer, actually id be safer on the rx knowing that the only problem that was really dangerous has been fixed...
just my .02
just my .02
kviper
VIP Member
I am with F1Rock's The Yamaha 4 strokes have, I think the highest output charging system's in the buisnes. If his battery was going dead then there was a problem with HIS charging system. If the charging system's on these sled's were comming up short we all would be having problem's. There is no doubt that somthing went wrong but i still don't think these sled's have a cronic problem. If any sled is poping coughing backfiring ect it should not take 1.5 miles before it is checked out. At the speed's you were going a lot of time went by and should not have gone more than maybe a 1/4 MI or so. I don't mean to pizzz in any body's oat meal here but this is my opinion. kviper
