semi synthetic vs full synthetic

[mbw919]

Isn't it nice that our 1 oil change per season cost about the same as what the 2 stroke guys pay for oil for a good weekend of riding

I think that's correct for the vast majority of 2-strokes. However, our E-TEC uses so little 2-stroke oil in a season that it amounts to about half what I spend on an oil & filter change for the Yamaha. Of course only time will tell how these E-TECs will hold up, but so far BRP seems to be having very few problems with them compared to their current carburated engines.

I get a warm fuzzy using Mobil1 0W-30 and K&N oil filers in my Vector. I'm sure no matter which oil and filter I used, the engine would probably outlive me anyway. It's very much a personal choice with most people.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Isn't it nice that our 1 oil change per season cost about the same as what the 2 stroke guys pay for oil for a good weekend of riding

I think that's correct for the vast majority of 2-strokes. However, our E-TEC uses so little 2-stroke oil in a season that it amounts to about half what I spend on an oil & filter change for the Yamaha. Of course only time will tell how these E-TECs will hold up, but so far BRP seems to be having very few problems with them compared to their current carburated engines.

I get a warm fuzzy using Mobil1 0W-30 and K&N oil filers in my Vector. I'm sure no matter which oil and filter I used, the engine would probably outlive me anyway. It's very much a personal choice with most people.

i cant see a etec lasting too long with the amt of oil they use...scarey!

FYI...mobile 1 0w30 is a auto oil and has very little zinc/phos levels,not what you want for our cam/tappets to last. You should research what auto oils have done before using them in your 4 stroke yammie.

Dan

 

[ScottyD]

a bunch of e-tecs were blowing up last year, they had piston to wall clearance issue's, this was right from the brp dealer

 

[Sasquatch]

I change the oil in my sled end of season. can be as much as 3500 miles or as little as 2,000. I change filter as well. Doing the job anyway so do it all.

I ran dino for the first 5,000 or so miles then switched to full syn. Never tried semi. I do know the sled starts easier with the 0-40 synthetic in it and gives me a piece of mind on the 3,500 miles oil change.

Now my truck has OLM system and if I run lots of highway miles it will go as long as 10 to 12,000kms before it thinks its time to change oil. About 6 to 7,000miles. I change it about once a year now with synthetic oil in it. I changed it twice a year with dino oil in it long before the OLM triggered.

Even at 10,000kms or 6,000 miles the oil is not that dirty. Years back on the 60's cars that did not burn anywhere as clean as the newer vehicles I changed every 2,000miles and the oil was black as tar in the winter from the choke cycle every morning.

I'm not worried about a 3,500 mile oil change on my sled. But I do worry about a 7,000 mile filter change like Yami recommends.

As far as the acids go I dump the oil in the spring and fill with fresh so the acids are gone for the summer sleep. I use synthetic for the better viscosity life and easier starting. I see no problem with the semi or even the dino oil.

I do see a problem with changing the oil in the fall and changing the filter every second oil change. Each to thier own and there will be so many different opinions on this that I'd say go with what you think best. But do change the oil and do change the filter. Interval and type of oil is up to you. What Yami recommends is a fine start. Going totally anal about it is fine as well.

Change it every 1,000 miles and new filter every time will only hurt your wallet up front but way less then changing it half as often as Yami recommends.

Different strokes!

 

[mbw919]

i cant see a etec lasting too long with the amt of oil they use...scarey!

FYI...mobile 1 0w30 is a auto oil and has very little zinc/phos levels,not what you want for our cam/tappets to last. You should research what auto oils have done before using them in your 4 stroke yammie.

Dan

Remember, the E-TEC is not flowing an air/fuel mixture through the crankcase. Only the combustion chamber sees any fuel. Certainly only time will tell how they last (fingers crossed).

Yes I have read lots of the recent buzz about lower zinc levels in automotive oils. It's hard to know what to believe these days. Many people are racking up big miles using auto oil in modern, high RPM, overhead cam, shim-under-bucket, motorcycle engines without any valve train or wet clutch problems. Frankly, I'm not going to worry about it and still bet the Vector engine will outlive me. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

 

[chevmal67]

No real need to go back to basic engine class, had agreed with you in my first post.

my bad, i forgot to quote who i was directing my comment to

The semi synthetic will break down sooner than the full synthetic. You will lose your viscosity rating sooner. If you are a mile monger and only change your oil once a year go with synthetic, if you are a casual rider go with semi-syn.
The reason you can go 12,000 miles with an oil change but still have to change the filter is because of the media used for the filter, it will break down before the oil will. there are companies the have produced filters that can last for 25,000 miles, which I use in both of my vehicles. never had a problem!

 

[chevmal67]

i cant see a etec lasting too long with the amt of oil they use...scarey!

FYI...mobile 1 0w30 is a auto oil and has very little zinc/phos levels,not what you want for our cam/tappets to last. You should research what auto oils have done before using them in your 4 stroke yammie.

Dan

Not all that scary considering they are putting the oil where it needs to be. Etec has already been proven in marine engines, i dont see any reason why they arent going to last long. they are pretty impressive and well engineered.. they put some thought into this one. rumor is they have the 800 etec done, but no one knows when it will be released.. just what ski-doo needs, another engine option for the same sled.. i still get a kick out of their rediculously long names.. ya i got a 2010 Ski-doo RevXP renegade adrenaline 600 etec... lol really? ill stick with my yamaha fx nytro xtx.. short and simple!

 

[SlowPoke]

All oils are not created equal.

For those worried about acid build-up due to extended oil changes, there are oils available that will control that acid build-up better then others. There is a quality to premium full synthetic oils called TBN or Total Base Number, do some research on it. The higher the TBN the better it controls the buld up of the acids, that is why Automobile oils like Amsoil's Signature Series carries a 35,000 mile/ one year drain, even longer if you perform oil testing, heck large industrail equipment and over the road trucks hardly ever get their oil changed.

 

[bh0396]

!!!!!

I am far from an expert, but I have over the road trucks, industrial, and farm machinery and the first time someone doesn't change the oil at the suggested interval as well as the filter, they need not come back. We have a phrase we use that talks of stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I am not an oil expert but am damn familiar with what it costs for a rebuild on cummins to a deere to a duramax to a small engine. Changing oil saves money but is absolutely ridiculous without changing the filter. Where do the impurities we are filtering go? Sorry for the soapbox but not changign the filter is a huge pet peave of mine especially considerring the size of investment we have all made!!!

 

[Mighty]

All oils are not created equal.

For those worried about acid build-up due to extended oil changes, there are oils available that will control that acid build-up better then others. There is a quality to premium full synthetic oils called TBN or Total Base Number, do some research on it. The higher the TBN the better it controls the buld up of the acids, that is why Automobile oils like Amsoil's Signature Series carries a 35,000 mile/ one year drain, even longer if you perform oil testing, heck large industrail equipment and over the road trucks hardly ever get their oil changed.

That's why many gas engine owners run diesel oil; Very high in acid neutralizers.

 

[blueironranger]

FYI...mobile 1 0w30 is a auto oil and has very little zinc/phos levels,not what you want for our cam/tappets to last. You should research what auto oils have done before using them in your 4 stroke yammie.

Dan

I really can't complain. There are many MANY DOHC car engines using the same cam/tappet system as these yamaha sleds. So far my 4.6L DOHC Lincoln has 250,000 on the ticker with Mobil 1 since day 1. As far as acid buildup, all the testing at my previous dob on my own vehicles showed no issues with too much acid in the oil at long interchange intervals.

 

[KevinS]

Re: !!!!!

I am far from an expert, but I have over the road trucks, industrial, and farm machinery and the first time someone doesn't change the oil at the suggested interval as well as the filter, they need not come back. We have a phrase we use that talks of stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I am not an oil expert but am damn familiar with what it costs for a rebuild on cummins to a deere to a duramax to a small engine. Changing oil saves money but is absolutely ridiculous without changing the filter. Where do the impurities we are filtering go? Sorry for the soapbox but not changign the filter is a huge pet peave of mine especially considerring the size of investment we have all made!!!

So is Yammie completely off base then with their filter change recommendations? If it was such a big deal wouldn't they want us to do it at every oil change?

 

[timberwolf]

WOW thanks for all the advice/facts guys!!!!!!!!!! Thats awsome

 

[99SRX700]

One thing to consider as well, is that over time the oil becomes saturated in carbon from blow by. Basically the carbon that results from combustion works its way past the rings and after a while it accumulates in the oil, which is why it turns black. From what I have been told this Carbon is abrasive and can contribute to engine wear. I suppose the the higher level of lubrication that full synthetic provides will help combat the wear that could result from it, but in the end I can't see going much more than 6000 miles without changing my oil when considering this. I have seen cars where you pull the valve cover and it looks like there is mud in the valve train. This "mud" is actually build up of the carbon. If you don't change your oil the carbon builds up and begins to clump, and changing your oil doesn't get rid of it so now you have clumps of carbon in your engine. This is why when your buying a car a good way to see if the oil has been changed is to pop the oil cap off and look underneath it. Sometimes you will see that sludge under the cap which is a dead give away the previous owner wasn't too good about changing his or her oil.

Either way, my point is when you think about oil change intervals remember that not only is the oil breaking down but its also becoming saturated with carbon.

 

[sleddheadd]

One thing to consider as well, is that over time the oil becomes saturated in carbon from blow by. Basically the carbon that results from combustion works its way past the rings and after a while it accumulates in the oil, which is why it turns black. From what I have been told this Carbon is abrasive and can contribute to engine wear. I suppose the the higher level of lubrication that full synthetic provides will help combat the wear that could result from it, but in the end I can't see going much more than 6000 miles without changing my oil when considering this. I have seen cars where you pull the valve cover and it looks like there is mud in the valve train. This "mud" is actually build up of the carbon. If you don't change your oil the carbon builds up and begins to clump, and changing your oil doesn't get rid of it so now you have clumps of carbon in your engine. This is why when your buying a car a good way to see if the oil has been changed is to pop the oil cap off and look underneath it. Sometimes you will see that sludge under the cap which is a dead give away the previous owner wasn't too good about changing his or her oil.

Either way, my point is when you think about oil change intervals remember that not only is the oil breaking down but its also becoming saturated with carbon.

A good synthetic oil and a good filter will take care of this problem. the carbon blow by is a big problem in diesel engines and a good synthetic will have dispersants which will keep the carbon separated and allow the filter to collect these deposits, which is why it is important to have a quality oil filter that will allow full flow yet still be able to collect any deposits that could contaminate your engine.
The sludge is also caused from oxidation and heat build up which will thicken and cause your oil to clump together so it is important to have an oil that can resist and stand up to these conditions. If your oil is not good at this you need to change it more often to prevent this from happening.
Also, did you know the most important filtration factor of an engine is your air filter. you get more contamination inside of your engine through the air filter more than any other engine part. many people praise K&N for thier filtration properties but actually thier filtration is rated the worst. They are phenominal at making horse power but not very good at protecting your motor. i must admit, i have K&N's on my sled! I love the H.P. gain and the sound!