Shootout

[SledFreak]

The Mach is not light but that 30 lb difference is over the skis. I have the X pkg 900 r and it’s 25 lbs lighter than the Mach So that makes it 55 lbs lighter than the Winder. You can really feel the difference that 55 lbs makes especially when a good bit of it is over the skis.

So why doo all skidoo 4 strokes have that heavy steering effort? Both of my 1200's had a lot of heavy ski turning effort. My TCAT steers light and easy to turn. The sled may be heavier, but it does not handle like it's heavier.

 

[KnappAttack]

So why doo all skidoo 4 strokes have that heavy steering effort? Both of my 1200's had a lot of heavy ski turning effort. My TCAT steers light and easy to turn. The sled may be heavier, but it does not handle like it's heavier.

Damn Doos gave me bad elbows! They steer heavy yet, can't keep the skis down. Its what lead me to the Winder. The first 5 miles on my buddies LTX-LE I knew I had to have one. I will say the Doos are lighter to move on the stand in the shop and I wished the 998 was lighter too, but it sure works well on the trail, and maybe could mess it up if it was lighter. Cat did their homework on them for handling and ride even if they can't engineer a driveline, I'll give them that.

 

[jonlafon1]

So why doo all skidoo 4 strokes have that heavy steering effort? Both of my 1200's had a lot of heavy ski turning effort. My TCAT steers light and easy to turn. The sled may be heavier, but it does not handle like it's heavier.

2017 to 2022 and WOW is all i have to say.. 22 is even flatter and stable.. Less ski lift for sure.. Point and shoot and she stays low and fast!

 

[XP123]

So why doo all skidoo 4 strokes have that heavy steering effort? Both of my 1200's had a lot of heavy ski turning effort. My TCAT steers light and easy to turn. The sled may be heavier, but it does not handle like it's heavier.

Probably because guys like you don't set your sled up properly. You probably have the rear set stiff with aggressive ski's up front or something else that adds to the heavy steering effort.
I have had 1200 Doo's since 2009 and none of them steered hard. My wife has had nothing but 1200's or 900 turbos since 2011 and none of them steer hard. She wouldn't ride it if it steered hard. She only weigh's 125 lbs and she's 5 ft 2 so it's not like she has some kind of super strength. Oh, and she is 62 YO and never complains about hard steering. We both agree that the new rear suspension that came out last year has resulted in by far the easiest steering doo's we have had in a very long time but once set up properly none of them steer hard.
I remember when the Winder first came out guys were complaining about hard steering, and I had mine set up to steer very easy. I was surprised when they came out with PS because I thought my Winder steered great and effortlessly.

 

[APEXJOCKEY]

Probably because guys like you don't set your sled up properly. You probably have the rear set stiff with aggressive ski's up front or something else that adds to the heavy steering effort.
I have had 1200 Doo's since 2009 and none of them steered hard. My wife has had nothing but 1200's or 900 turbos since 2011 and none of them steer hard. She wouldn't ride it if it steered hard. She only weigh's 125 lbs and she's 5 ft 2 so it's not like she has some kind of super strength. Oh, and she is 62 YO and never complains about hard steering. We both agree that the new rear suspension that came out last year has resulted in by far the easiest steering doo's we have had in a very long time but once set up properly none of them steer hard.
I remember when the Winder first came out guys were complaining about hard steering, and I had mine set up to steer very easy. I was surprised when they came out with PS because I thought my Winder steered great and effortlessly.

Hey XP123, I noticed you are from down in Chautauqua NY. Area. I would like to ride down that way this season. IYO where is the best place to unload from for the best chance of nice trails. I’ll be riding during the week. Thank you

Hey XP123, I noticed you are from down in Chautauqua NY. Area. I would like to ride down that way this season. IYO where is the best place to unload from for the best chance of nice trails. I’ll be riding during the week. Thank you

 

[SledFreak]

Probably because guys like you don't set your sled up properly. You probably have the rear set stiff with aggressive ski's up front or something else that adds to the heavy steering effort.
I have had 1200 Doo's since 2009 and none of them steered hard. My wife has had nothing but 1200's or 900 turbos since 2011 and none of them steer hard. She wouldn't ride it if it steered hard. She only weigh's 125 lbs and she's 5 ft 2 so it's not like she has some kind of super strength. Oh, and she is 62 YO and never complains about hard steering. We both agree that the new rear suspension that came out last year has resulted in by far the easiest steering doo's we have had in a very long time but once set up properly none of them steer hard.
I remember when the Winder first came out guys were complaining about hard steering, and I had mine set up to steer very easy. I was surprised when they came out with PS because I thought my Winder steered great and effortlessly.

No, i know exactly how to set them up. Most people that ride a doo will tell you the same! But to each there own i guess..

 

[Mototown]

2017 to 2022 and WOW is all i have to say.. 22 is even flatter and stable.. Less ski lift for sure.. Point and shoot and she stays low and fast!

With the front suspension & other changes from 17-18 to the 21-22 sled . It should really classified as a new sled . Sidewinder 2

 

[XP123]

No, i know exactly how to set them up. Most people that ride a doo will tell you the same! But to each there own i guess..

Just because they ride Doos doesn’t mean they know how to set them up. I ride lots of sleds and it blows me away to find how many guys have no clue how to set up their sleds. I think lots of guys with Winders don’t know how to also and that’s probably why they come with power steering. They figured most don’t know how to make them steer easier so will just put PS on them.

 

[jonlafon1]

Just because they ride Doos doesn’t mean they know how to set them up. I ride lots of sleds and it blows me away to find how many guys have no clue how to set up their sleds. I think lots of guys with Winders don’t know how to also and that’s probably why they come with power steering. They figured most don’t know how to make them steer easier so will just put PS on the

Plenty of guys that ride all brands that don't know how to set up sleds.. That's why they ask on here and get constructive advice. They do the same on DOO talk ? Right.

 

[Motorhead]

I have seen big groups of sledders passing by us as we sit and talk on a safe spot on the trail. Uncanny how many are fighting a slow speed DARTING sled as they drive on by! Some are on rentals others are just on Doos. So yeah many have no clue on how to find that sweet spot of handling! All I can think of is, that darting will wear on them fast.

I’ve seen it happen to a friend’s wife who couldn’t keep up with our group, and we were going especially slow for her. Put her on one of our sleds and wow what a difference. Problem is, whomever swapped with her, got tired quickly fighting with her unmanageable sled... So yes, set them up for enjoyable riding.

 

[nbsledder]

Track too loose. Even the combination drivers can ratchet.

I agree

 

[SledFreak]

Just because they ride Doos doesn’t mean they know how to set them up. I ride lots of sleds and it blows me away to find how many guys have no clue how to set up their sleds. I think lots of guys with Winders don’t know how to also and that’s probably why they come with power steering. They figured most don’t know how to make them steer easier so will just put PS on them.

Seriously... I am on my 25+ sled and have been riding since I was 10 ( I am 53) and my first sled was an Elan and then a Bravo. I have worked on and helped out on pure race sleds that raced in oval (soo i-500) and cross country. I can tell you this... I can setup a suspension. I have spent thousands on after market suspension from hygear trying to dial in my Nytro XTX. I know exactly how a sled should respond and how each component change makes to the handling characteristics. Sorry to tell you, but its not rocket science to setup a suspension..

 

[STAIN]

I think lots of guys with Winders don’t know how to also and that’s probably why they come with power steering

I have said it before and I will say it again, Ease of steering is not the only benefit of EPS. The shock and vibration transmitted through the bars is drastically reduced. Fatigue is reduced.
I don't think EPS was added to mask any inherent handling shortcomings.
I am not sure how many here are old enough to drive cars without power steering but the feedback through the steering wheel, positive and negative, is much more without power teering.
Anyone here who drove a manual steer four-wheel drive truck through the mud and had his elbow slammed into the side window, or thumb twisted in the steering wheel, after hitting a rut or rock knows exactly what I am talking about.
Driving the Apex EPS one handed through a choppy trail with no bar feedback showed me what EPS was really about.
How many people drive 4 wheelers without EPS after having one with. Almost nobody.
EPS is a benefit well worth the minimal weight gain for the average trail rider.


Just my opinion though

 

[lakercr]

I have said it before and I will say it again, Ease of steering is not the only benefit of EPS. The shock and vibration transmitted through the bars is drastically reduced. Fatigue is reduced.
I don't think EPS was added to mask any inherent handling shortcomings.
I am not sure how many here are old enough to drive cars without power steering but the feedback through the steering wheel, positive and negative, is much more without power teering.
Anyone here who drove a manual steer four-wheel drive truck through the mud and had his elbow slammed into the side window, or thumb twisted in the steering wheel, after hitting a rut or rock knows exactly what I am talking about.
Driving the Apex EPS one handed through a choppy trail with no bar feedback showed me what EPS was really about.
How many people drive 4 wheelers without EPS after having one with. Almost nobody.
EPS is a benefit well worth the minimal weight gain for the average trail rider.


Just my opinion though

Pretty much this. Power steering isn't a band-aid to an improperly set up suspension. It is a technology that allows for suspension settings that improve the overall ride and handling of the sled. Suspension setup has always been a balance between transfer, understeer/oversteer, and steering effort. Power steering simply removes one of the variables (steering effort) and permits suspension settings that would otherwise be unacceptable in its absence.

 

[1nc 2000]

Well, I dont put any faith in the "Shootout" due to the fact that these sleds are run prior out in the fields with dealers adjusting away at different setups.