Sick of all the hype

[murdog94]

I have a ridding buddy who is so into Ski-doo he wont admit that Yamaha builds a good sled. He says mine is a heavy POS. He wont admit that his 2stroke will be done LONG before my 4stroke, and he also wont admit that my Chassis will last longer, he says any sled with 5K miles that he has put on or that have been put on boondocking and mountain climbing is shot. I gave up. My 3500 mile RX1 will be doing a mix of boondocking, mountain ridding, and then just the trailridding that we do here in MN, now it has become a Challenge to see how long it will go. I have loved every Yamaha i have ridden.

And yes as i have said before and my sig says i own a polaris, mainly because it is a small CC sled that my wife rides, and really is about the most reliable 2stroke in that class.

 

[sherlock29]

I have not been hardcore brand loyal, i have owned over a dozen sleds over the last 20 yrs, everything from old 440 arctic cats to now 2 apex's a phazer and a new 1200x doo. I have over 25000 combined miles on my apex's.... absolutely love the motors in these things, but i do have to say that the suspensions and handling have always been a sore point... as many have, i have spent hours and hours, and alot of money to get these things to handle the way i want.... i have had to rebuild EVERYTHING except the motor and clutchs.(had to do a stator in my 40th when it left me in deep woods Quebec.). Yamaha does build a almost perfect long distance on trail cruiser.

This year i was in the market for a new sled.... yamaha just didn't change enough to get me to stay... hence the new 1200x renegade. i plan on keeping this for 10000miles and from what i'm reading it should be not an issue... this 4-stoke 1200 is over 115lbs lighter than my 40th 144. I just cant get away from that... i do alot of crosscountry running, this is why i built my 40th the way i wanted. but when you do a 300 mile day accross every kind of terrain the apex just is not the best fit....

 

[Bucky the d.o.g.]

So I had 32,000kms on my 2007 Apex...and I'm thinking I changed this and I changed that, donuts, wear and tear items etc. the only mechanical failure was a crank positiong sensor. But ??? I go look at the SkiDoo 1200 sit on it, start it etc. it is the flimsiest pos ever built light or not, a few more chicken wings here and there and the sleds now weight the same with a rider on. I look at the cat, flimsy the switches felt cheap the plastic looked and felt cheap, and to need all the extra turbo hardwear and headaches for maybe 10hp.???? I too thought that Yami had made no changes to the 2011 and newer Apexes other than Power steering and and the Exup. Luckily I decided to buy a new leftover 2011 se...what an eyeopener . they changed or altered or improved nearly everything, it is not the same sled as it's predisesors , it does not need turbo to run down lighter sleds, the weight is a symbol of thicker metals, plastics and quality parts, the weight helps keep the thing planted at 100mph on the lake, fit and finish rocks, it makes full horsepower for a much larger rpm range than any other sled. It is impossible not to smile when you pull up to a stop and bark the throttle a few times and haul #*$&@ outta there

 

[kviper]

So I had 32,000kms on my 2007 Apex...and I'm thinking I changed this and I changed that, donuts, wear and tear items etc. the only mechanical failure was a crank positiong sensor. But ??? I go look at the SkiDoo 1200 sit on it, start it etc. it is the flimsiest pos ever built light or not, a few more chicken wings here and there and the sleds now weight the same with a rider on. I look at the cat, flimsy the switches felt cheap the plastic looked and felt cheap, and to need all the extra turbo hardwear and headaches for maybe 10hp.???? I too thought that Yami had made no changes to the 2011 and newer Apexes other than Power steering and and the Exup. Luckily I decided to buy a new leftover 2011 se...what an eyeopener . they changed or altered or improved nearly everything, it is not the same sled as it's predisesors , it does not need turbo to run down lighter sleds, the weight is a symbol of thicker metals, plastics and quality parts, the weight helps keep the thing planted at 100mph on the lake, fit and finish rocks, it makes full horsepower for a much larger rpm range than any other sled. It is impossible not to smile when you pull up to a stop and bark the
throttle a few times and haul #*$&@ outta there

BINGOOOO!!!!!!

 

[crankbait300]

I really wish I could agree with this post however -- I tried the nytro -- and now I have a new ski doo in the garage. Worst yet -- I can't get anyone to buy the nytro.

I wanted the Yamaha because of what everyone states the benefits are... yes, I agree that the sled is quiet, long lasting and powerfull - however multiple issues have disappointed me to a point where I could not stand to ride it and I did not want to spend more money to get the sled to perform how I wanted it... why spend more when you can get a doo that performs excellent right out of the box.

I don't want to get in any battles... just saying this sled did not work for me.. hopefully someone wants it because right now I can get anyone to even look at it.... so who is saying they are so great?

 

[AKrider]

The Yamaha chassis aren't heavy due to the thickness of metals, it is due to design efforts that don't focus on light weight being a significant goal. Take the Deltabox chassis, its in its 11th year of production and is fricking heavy. The steering system is overcomplicated and uses way too many parts. Ski-doo uses a system like a fourwheeler. Yamaha tunnels are lighter gauge aluminum that what other OEMs use and lots of heavy steel brackets are needed for the suspension mounting points. Yamaha skids are built heavy, complicated and are weak compared to the lighter weight, simpler skids the other OEM's use.

The Nytro was a good start as its weight is not far above the Doo 1200 or the Cat 1100 but the subframe is heavy, not super strong, constructed of mild steel. The muffler weighs far more than it should and the tunnel is heavier than it needs to be due to the rear exit exhaust. Little things like coming stock with steel handle bars just add weight. Lots of the Doo's come with aluminum bars.

People are incorrect when they say things like the Doo XP is junk because it is so much lighter than a Yamaha. I've raced against XP's since they were introduced and the MXZx etech 600 versions hold up just fine. I've talked to and watched the guys that race them. One of my friends races the Iron Dog with an XP. I've helped work on XP's with all the plastics off and they look downright fragile but they were engineered from the beginning to be light and they hold together. The new Polaris Pro-Ride chassis with its glued together front bulkhead has proven to be tough enough to win the Iron Dog. The last time Yamaha won was back some 25 years ago!!!

I'd love to see Yamaha put the same weight reduction efforts into their chassis as do the other OEM's. Yamaha's engines are great, no changes needed their with the 3 & 4 cylinder. They can save money on tooling, design, and EPA certification by just sticking with them and focusing their efforts on a lighter weight chassis. The mountain guys are able to shave off lots of weight from a stock Nytro by just eliminating extra fluff and using different rear skids, shocks and a-arms. Yamaha could reduce the weight from the factory for little expense if they chose to.

I really liked the gas and go dependability of my Yamaha's engine and clutching. If they can reduce the weight, vastly improve the handing than I'd be back in a Yamaha showroom seriously considering a new purchase. Their goal should be to produce a chassis as light as an XP or even a Pro-ride and only exceed the weight of those sleds with the weight difference between the 2-stroke twin compared to the 4-stroke 3 or 4 cylinder. Cat is using the same chassis for both their 2 and 4 stroke sleds. That is the way to do it.

 

[kviper]

Well you won't have to worry about selling the Doo because if it is still running after any amount of mile's it won't be worth much and the 500, 600, and 800,s all run the same Isoflex crap crank bearing's and I have heard of a couple 500's that were done before 3000 mi (one at 2200) and that is not acceptable to me any way.
Doo and Cat's chasis are fragil!
Why is it that every multi brand dealer will tell you right out that the Yamaha's are much more durable and refined based on what they see in there shop's?
Cracked tunnel's with Cat and Doo are a fact and if that is what it takes to be light than I will take mine on the heavy side.
The Nytro just does not feel right for me and the type of riding I do but I know the earlier Nytro's had issue's and I also hear the later Nytro's are much improved.
As stated in earlier posts, The 11, 12 Apex is just fun to ride and every time I get on it I end up with the same smile on my face.
Cat? There is no way in hell I would deal with the kind of issue's the New cat's had last year no mater how it handled, rode, how light it was or how fast it is.

 

[zeke66]

I ride with a couple Poo guys. First time they saw my sled my one buddy says, " this is why I like Yamaha, look at how well it's built. The parts look like they can take a pounding." He has been a Poo guy his whole life and still is.

His XRS has been in the shop every year for some kind of warranty issue. My other buddy has had mulitple issues with his MXZ ETEC. Can honestly say, half the time when we go riding, that thing is beeping at him and goes into limp mode for some reason or another. Only time my Nytro was in the shop was for first oil change.

I know my Nytro is heavy, they are faster than me in the woods. However, if I land hard from a jump, I know I probably wont have to bend my steering rod back straight like my XRS buddy had to.

I also know I am not riding my Nytro at its limits, pictures of my 3 year old son flashing in my mind stop me from riding too hard.

My Nytro may not be as light or well handling as other sleds but, its good for my trail riding and (knock on wood) I know it will get me home every time.

 

[copo427ss]

If xp's are soo tough, explain to me how trail riders are destroying them on trails, not racing them. My friend even had a real race xp that he converted to trail. He loves doo and said that was the worst sled he has ever owned. He carried spare parts In a back pack cause he would bend and break stuff on trail rides with us. The last straw was the motor blowing in one season. Fact, skidoo is the number one sled we get In the shop for repairs, twisted and engine, electrical related. I've seen them naked with no plastics and they ARE as fragile as they look. Can you honestly even tell me that you've seen one xp that has been trail ridden hard sit on the floor straight or the plastics still line perfect. The answer is NO!! Are they light? Yes. Do they handle well? Most definatly. Are they strong? No. Are they reliable? No. I remember my first encounter with a new xp. The owner had just bought it. 2008 xp. The guy was in his 70s. He pulled into the parking lot at a ride we were sponsoring. I went to check it out. The guy said he went through a series of whoops and the #*$&@ end danced around some. He said they were pretty deep whoops. I looked at the tunnel and it had a ripple down the one side. The tunnel had bent. He Had like 30 miles or so on it. I also see you switched to Polaris and not doo. That would be my choice if I switched. Polaris started getting there stuff together In the last couple yrs. engines staying together better chassis design.

 

[AKrider]

I was very skeptical of the XP chassis when it came out and even more so when I first saw my brother-in-laws all stripped down to the bare tunnel and most of the front panels removed. His sled was even the race chassis with all the extra gussets and reinforcements. But, the fact of the matter is they hold up. If they were as bad as you claim then you would not see them being aired out in videos, in the X-games, winning the Iron Dog, or our on the sno-x track as the XP race sled is the same basic chassis as the consumer sled.

Racing XC here in Alaska, I've seen the top pro riders launch driveway approaches at high speed, fly much higher than what you see in the USCC races, and see the XP take crusher landings in the flat lap after lap after lap. These are the guys who win the races and they don't even run the RS race sled. They ride consumer XRS etecs or whatever the race replica is called. Same sled they run in the Iron Dog.

The lower end XP's don't come with the additional braces and they are needed. Plus the stock shocks suck and shocks that constantly bottom out will crack or break any sled no matter what the make or model.

The honest to goodness truth is the handling and weight of the Nytro and the other Yamaha sleds prevents the vast majority of people from going fast enough in the rough to damage their chassis or suspension components. I mean if you are heading into a big section of whoops and the sled starts darting out of control you back off the throttle and slow down. That's all you can do, you've reached the limits of the stock Yamaha chassis. On the other brands the edge of the envelope is further away and you can go faster with more control through the bumps. The other chassis are stable and light enough to throw around that you can push past the limits of the chassis and still maintain enough stability and control to keep your speed through the bumps. This is where the sled gets pounded and beat to hell and if your shocks can't keep the bottoming under control you break things on the sled.

 

[sheetwright]

I do not believe the Nytro issues are related to wieght. I believe most of it is from Setup. Being so many guys are going to a squatted 128" track, reworking their rear suspension to add bigger hoses, revalving, and bumpers. Then either going with a z-bros, or a Skinz front end makes me believe that if this sled had a longer stance with the front end, and a much better rear suspension it could handle those larger bumps and studder corners better. Which would allow you to ride more confident, and possibly fater if you wanted. Which is what made our cross country team ride harder and more confident. When I talked to Hygear in the past they said that the rear of the Nytro causes the bulk of the handeling and front issues with the sled, and by reworking the rear suspension you will feel more confident. You also won't blow out rear seals, and bodies which they said is an issue on The RTX models. Being that said if they are coming out with a new suspension that will hopefully fix those issues. As far as weight I think the weight drop amount I hear coming out will put us in a better ballpark to compete against the other brands. It will also make the sled more balanced from where they are taking the weight from. Take a bit of weight out of the rear and a lot out of the front (RUMORS LOL) where we have our out of balance issues now, and it should work.

 

[Dano]

Little bit of tweaking and I love the Nytro suspension. The big block of ice and slush under tunnel is the hidden weight issue. A different exhaust system dumped up front would shave about 20-30lbs of unforseen weight under seat.

Dan

 

[sheetwright]

Not sure on the front dump rumor. More or less a 150hp triple with a boosted option on a better handling sled about 40lbs lighter is the thing for 2014. I hoping they meant 40 lbs lighter then our Nytro not our existing 150hp sled lol. Being a Nytro rtx is 522lbs now that would be substantial. And for those apex guys I have to believe this isn't going to be the Nytro chasis you don't like now but a more stable, flatter, bump eater that handles way better then either option we have now. My two cents from the hype mill

 

[LJ 452]

The honest to goodness truth is the handling and weight of the Nytro and the other Yamaha sleds prevents the vast majority of people from going fast enough in the rough to damage their chassis or suspension components. I mean if you are heading into a big section of whoops and the sled starts darting out of control you back off the throttle and slow down. That's all you can do, you've reached the limits of the stock Yamaha chassis. On the other brands the edge of the envelope is further away and you can go faster with more control through the bumps. The other chassis are stable and light enough to throw around that you can push past the limits of the chassis and still maintain enough stability and control to keep your speed through the bumps. This is where the sled gets pounded and beat to hell and if your shocks can't keep the bottoming under control you break things on the sled.

Couldn't agree more, i put a ton of time and money in to my Nytro, enjoyed riding it, struggled to keep up with the other brands but because of my size I could just mussel through it. Fact is at the end of the day I was worn out. Because of the setup and again my size I would push the Nytro to the same levels as the others. Bottom line is after year one, I broke or cracked something nearly every time I went out. It just got old, if it could take the pounding, I would say that the extra weight is justified, fact is its not. The price of parts to replace doesn't reflect material either, you would think everything is made out of C.F. based on price.

Also keep in mind that you have far more (quantity) of aggressive riders on the other brands as you do Yamaha. With the exception of may in 08' which is when it took all of what a month to bend subframes and become aware of handling issues. The facts are that Yam builds great trail cruisers, probably undoubtably the best for those those are not semi-aggressive and aggressive riders. They will certainly last you a very long time, if ridden within the limits of there intent. Once out side that range the sled will begin to destroy itself due to the original design intent being exceeded. There is a reason the S.X. team spent so much on a race sled, and it wasn't just the front geometry or the rear skid. The fact that no one could purchase a single part off their race sled is a bit odd right?

 

[copo427ss]

Ak. What I'm stating is what I have personally witnessed. Either by my friends that ride hard and owned them or from what has came through the shop. I rode my buds new etec 600 and I really liked how it felt and handled. What I didn't like was when he clipped the curb with his ski and it folded. Or my other bud. Carrying spindles with him cause he would bend them. Stopping while he bent his steering stem back straight repeatedly. The fact that the ski tips wouldn't line up straight do to a bent twisted nun. Not gonna lie. Our trails are pretty rough. And they all ride hard. But my apex doesn't do those things. We joke about xp in the shop. When one still sits straight on the floor we see how many miles are on it. Then figure the guy or girl really doesn't RIDE the sled. Just put the trails