Slydog Powderhounds vs. OEM Yamaha Attak/Apex skis

[craze1cars]

Did this install yesterday and documented some stuff in the process...hopefully to help some of you ski researchers out:

Removed...OEM 2007 Attak skis:
5" wide x 40 7/8" long (408.75 sq inches), 3 inch standard carbide with no carbide wearpads or hardweld on a 7/16" host bar, attaching bolt/nut. Weight 14.75 lbs/pair

Installed...Slydog Powderhounds:
6 7/8" wide x 43 1/4" long (594.69 sq inches), 8 inch Bergstrom triple point carbide, hard-weld along the entire non-carbide length, 1/2" host bar, 3/8" thick Bergstrom ski savers, attaching bolt/nut. Weight 14.0 lbs/pair

Surface area is increased by 45% over OEM which should give this nose-heavy sled some much-desired front end float. And surprisingly the ski package decreases the overall weight of the sled by an insignifcant 3/4 pound, despite a much fatter, more significant, long lasting and aggressive carbide, and a wider/longer ski (and thicker due to the addition of the ski savers).

Subjective note...the Slydogs are much more flexible than the OEM's.

The extra length of the Slydogs is ALL to the front of the spindle...PLUS the ski loop sticks out further forward than the OEM's. This will make the overall length of the sled about 3 to 4 inches longer than stock from tip to tail...something to note for those of you with 10 ft enclosed trailers? (I have a 10 ft enclosed, but a non-issue with the Triton clam-shell with it's bubble-nose that allows the skis to stick forward of the deck nearly 12 inches.) But the extreme flexibility means you can mash the ski tip up against the front wall of the trailer and it will bend back a bit with no damage....so this length is probably a non-issue but something to consider.

I will also note that the OEM skis, bars, and Slydog skis and Slydog's OEM carbide bars are all flat and straight. But the Bergstrom Triple points are significantly rockered. When these very thick and stiff rockered bars are torqued down to the Slydog ski, the entire ski now becomes rockered...so the entire 8" carbide actually does not touch the pavement when you're on a hard surface...only the center 2 or 3 inches is touching the ground. Time will tell how this impacts performance of the sled and skis in various conditions, but it's a time-honored racing trick so I believe it will dramatically reduce steering effort over most setups. And time will tell if I over-shot on getting the 8 inchers vs 6 inchers. I promise I'll be honest...I'm very good at admitting my mistakes in judgement when they happen...

Another note: Shimming appears to be BADLY needed on the OEM skis, as their rubber spindle bumpers seem to force the nose of the skis down. Based on that observation I'd recommend that those of you running OEM skis on these sleds make sure to shim them to force those tips up....I'd venture to guess this nose-down ski pressure is the primary cause of everyone's darting complaints. However, when the Slydog skis and Slydog replacement spindle bumpers are installed, it is just the opposite...the new rubber bumper forces the ski into a nearly level to slgihtly tip-up position. This should help cure darting in theory also. So I chose not to install the shims on the Slydogs as they do not appear to need them....again time will tell if I am correct. They can be quickly installed later if I feel there is a need.

And one last subjective note...what the heck was Yamaha thinking when they delivered these long-track sleds with an extremely wimpy looking standard 3" x 7/16" carbide wear bar that doesn't even have any carbide wear pads? Sorry but I do not feel this is enough for even a non-studded recreationally ridden long-tracker, and those of you who choose to keep the stock skis would probably do yourself a great service to upgrade the carbide to something more signficant...I am a Bergstorm fan but this will be my first experience with his Triple points. But anything/any brand better than the OEM 3 incher should help improve all sorts of handling characteristics on the stock setup. And as I said, I think shimming as absolutely critical strictly from my observation of how these skis sit, but I freely acknowledge I haven't actually ridden this sled yet in stock OR modified form.

Overall I am very pleased. They look great on paper and in person, and their optional custom-designed color schemes are really cool if you're into that sort of thing, but the ride is all I really care about (thus my plain black color choice) and I can only speculate right now on how they will ride. So stay tuned for a ride report sometime probably in early January, unless December is very good to us. Hope this info helps quantify some of the differences for you ski shoppers.

And here's a recycled photo to go with the post...

 

[Yamahammer485]

Thats some really great info there.

Great job!

 

[The Snow D.O.]

Might be a lot of work on your part, but it sure would be interesting to hear a comparison of the Bergstrom set-up on the Powderhounds and the same set-up on the OEM Skis. Maybe you'ld do that for those of us who are going to be putting the Bergstrom set-up on the OEM Skis???????????
That would be very helpful!!!

 

[craze1cars]

I agree it's not a bad idea, but very sorry...no-can-do...not unless someone wants to send me about $150 so I can buy a second set of Bergstrom triple points and ski savers for the OEM skis just for the sake of the comparison. The wearbar bolt pattern is different for OEM skis vs. the Slydog skis...so the bars and ski savers will not interchange.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

Craze1,

Great post! I really appreciate the information you share here. After you have things put together remember to set the ski alignment. (As I typed that I felt as though I was "Preaching to the choir"). I stated it more for the general benefit of all. This will be my first Yami in the last 20 years. I cannot wait till my Attak comes in and we can begin to have some quality garage time together.

I was wondering....with regard to alignment....when the front suspension goes through it's travel, do the ski tips remain at the same distance to each other? In other words, does the toe angle change much when the front end hits a bump?

 

[Srxspec]

The ski angle does change when it goes through it's travel. We find it best to set the alignment with the full weight of the sled on the ground, push down on both front and rear bumpers and allow them to come back up to a rest and then set the alignment. Set the Slydog skis with 1/8" of toe-in. Also you mentioned trying to shim the Slydog skis. In my testing last season I found it to make the handling of the skis worse. Just some information.

Also what worked for some last year was to lift the front end of the sled off the ground and adjust the front shock springs so they are "free" or become "loose" and then lock the jam nuts. The springs should be set so they just barely wiggle up and down or have no pressure on them with the front end off the ground.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

The ski angle does change when it goes through it's travel. We find it best to set the alignment with the full weight of the sled on the ground, push down on both front and rear bumpers and allow them to come back up to a rest and then set the alignment. Set the Slydog skis with 1/8" of toe-in.

I am presuming then that as the suspension is compressed the toe will go negative. Correct?? I am suprised to see a recommended "1/8" Toe-in (Positive toe) All other sleds I have owned through the years had a recommended negative toe setting. Could the positive toe be to compensate for the change in toe when the rider climbs aboard??

 

[radta7]

Great info! Thank you!

 

[craze1cars]

This is a fairly old post...was interesting it got bumped to the top and I skimmed over my story again...and found an error or two now that I corrected today.

How sad that I still haven't had the chance to ride this setup. Looking forward to completing my report, but it'll be a few months yet....

Think SNOW

 

[radta7]

Thanks for the help today!