Solenoid, starter relay.....something else?????

[ranger1]

Every once in awhile my sled won't start, when I turn the key I here the "click" & thats it, the starter does not engage. I have done a search on here & some say solenoid & some say the starter relay are the cause. It is occurring more often & when it does, I put the heat gun to the starter ( just above the top front side of the oil reservoir there is a space where you can see the starter). If that don't work I bang the #*$&@ of the belly pan with a rubber mallet to get the starter to work. One more thing, it only does this when cold, once it's warm, it starts every time.
I have replaced many parts trying to fix a different problem, that being said, does anyone have a good idea what is causing this as I am trying not to replace many more unnecessary parts, lol!!!

 

[steiner]

First test the starter relay located near the battery. They may "click" but send no power to the starter.
Test light or multi meter will be your friend in testing this.
If you have power coming out of the relay to the starter wire meaning that the relay is good, but still no crank then it will be either starter brushes ( which are replaceable) or the starter armature ( which is not replaceable).

Mine turned out to be the armature. Will be getting a good used starter soon I hope.

 

[ranger1]

First test the starter relay located near the battery. They may "click" but send no power to the starter.
Test light or multi meter will be your friend in testing this.
If you have power coming out of the relay to the starter wire meaning that the relay is good, but still no crank then it will be either starter brushes ( which are replaceable) or the starter armature ( which is not replaceable).

Mine turned out to be the armature. Will be getting a good used starter soon I hope.

So basically I would have to tear it down to the battery box on the day it doesn't start to check if I have power coming from the relay to the starter. Sheeesh, this is going to be a tough one because usually it decides not to start just before A ride with the boys & I am scrambling to get it started, lol!!
So it could be one of four things,
1-solenoid
2-relay
3-brushes or
4-armature
I think next time I will have to borrow a bunch more $ & buy a new sled instead of someone else's problem as this thing is starting to nickel & dime (hundreds) me to death.

 

[maim]

You could install an led or light like rocks starter saver. Usually it goes on the starter side of the solenoid to tell you if your starter has stuck on and save a burn down on your starter. I have them installed on all my sleds. Working on getting enough to do brothers now.

 

[steiner]

Carry a long needle nosed plier with you. Familiarize yourself on how the starter relay works. The 2 larger wires connect inside the relay to power the starter. When it does not start jump these 2 wires together with the pliers on the terminals thus bypassing the relay to crank the starter. This can be done by just removing the side cover. Been ther, dun that.
If that does not get the starter to crank, take a long screwdriver and tap the starter while holding the key in the "crank" position. If the starter cranks then its either the brushes or armature. Again, been ther dun that.
To determine whether its the brushes or armature you need to remove the starter.

 

[steiner]

I think next time I will have to borrow a bunch more $ & buy a new sled instead of someone else's problem as this thing is starting to nickel & dime (hundreds) me to death.

Welcome the the wonderful world of sledding.
I spent over $1200 on my sled before the season even started. Only $400 of that were performance upgrades and gadgets. The rest was maintianence.

Now with only 500 miles into the season I now need a starter. Armature failure

 

[ranger1]

I think next time I will have to borrow a bunch more $ & buy a new sled instead of someone else's problem as this thing is starting to nickel & dime (hundreds) me to death.

Welcome the the wonderful world of sledding.
I spent over $1200 on my sled before the season even started. Only $400 of that were performance upgrades and gadgets. The rest was maintianence.

Now with only 500 miles into the season I now need a starter. Armature failure

Ya just when you feel you have done "ALL" the preventative maintenance possible (oil lite bushings, copper donuts, 20 series battery, dupont slides, all bearings which include jackshaft, chaincase, speedo & the bearings in the skid, shocks revalved etc) then something that you don't expect fails! I am still trying to figure out where i lost 500 rpm's off the top end, lol!!
Ok, I am done complaining, hahahaha, thanks for the help steiner, I will start trouble shooting the starter, relay, armature, solenoid

 

[yamaha1973]

Seen this the other day, turned out to be the starter solenoid

 

[steiner]

Forgot to mention to check for corrosion on the white plug and terminals of the starter relay/soleniod. ( According to the dealer Yamaha calls it a relay in the parts fiche)
The way this plug is mounted and is not "weather packed" it tends to let moisture sit in it and thus can corrode.
The easy fix for this is to clean up the terminals and pack it full of dielectric grease.

 

[ranger1]

Carry a long needle nosed plier with you. Familiarize yourself on how the starter relay works. The 2 larger wires connect inside the relay to power the starter. When it does not start jump these 2 wires together with the pliers on the terminals thus bypassing the relay to crank the starter. This can be done by just removing the side cover. Been ther, dun that.
If that does not get the starter to crank, take a long screwdriver and tap the starter while holding the key in the "crank" position. If the starter cranks then its either the brushes or armature. Again, been ther dun that.
To determine whether its the brushes or armature you need to remove the starter.

I am going to randomly go & try starting the sled once in awhile ( besides on ride day, lol) & hopefully it will act up so I can test the problem. You said I can access the two large wires with the side cover off but the only wires I see are the two jumper wires that I believe go straight to the battery.....or do they? lol
Moisture in the relay could be a possibility now that you mention it as it only acts up when the sled sits over night or longer, always starts with no problem when it is warm.

 

[gitrdun]

Ranger 1, maybe someone will correct me on this, but I think Steiner also is implying that starter relay and solenoid are one and the same. Starter relay on the Apex is under the airbox right behind the jumper cable leads that you mentioned, I suspect the airbox has to come off to get at it properly for cleaning. Here is a picture of one on a Nytro which is easily accessible. If you pull back the rubber boots that the screwdriver is crossing, that will expose your two terminals on the starter relay. Have you tried cleaning up the battery terminals also? Just the slightest film makes a poor connection sometimes.

 

[ranger1]

Ranger 1, maybe someone will correct me on this, but I think Steiner also is implying that starter relay and solenoid are one and the same. Starter relay on the Apex is under the airbox right behind the jumper cable leads that you mentioned, I suspect the airbox has to come off to get at it properly for cleaning. Here is a picture of one on a Nytro which is easily accessible. If you pull back the rubber boots that the screwdriver is crossing, that will expose your two terminals on the starter relay. Have you tried cleaning up the battery terminals also? Just the slightest film makes a poor connection sometimes.

I just had the battery out this past fall & replaced it with a higher capacity one, connections are clean & tight. I am thinking your right, the solenoid & relay must be the same thing & that the airbox must have to come out because the relay is on the right side of the battery box.

 

[steiner]

Sorry. Remove the side panel. Look past the jumper leads and under the airbox just left of the jumper leads.
You can see the relay with the wires coming to it. The one from the battery is red and the one going to the starter is black.
Both will have a black rubber cap protecting the terminal. You can see the black wire going to the starter and the starter itself without removing anything else.
Using the long needle pliers to jump the terminals you can energize the starter.
You can also use a long screwdriver and put it to the black starter wire and use the red jumper cable to energize the starter thru the screwdriver shaft.
Both ways have been proven to work.
To properly service the relay you will need to remove the airbox.

 

[ranger1]

Sorry. Remove the side panel. Look past the jumper leads and under the airbox just left of the jumper leads.
You can see the relay with the wires coming to it. The one from the battery is red and the one going to the starter is black.
Both will have a black rubber cap protecting the terminal. You can see the black wire going to the starter and the starter itself without removing anything else.
Using the long needle pliers to jump the terminals you can energize the starter.
You can also use a long screwdriver and put it to the black starter wire and use the red jumper cable to energize the starter thru the screwdriver shaft.
Both ways have been proven to work.
To properly service the relay you will need to remove the airbox.

Thanks steiner, awesome!! The next time the starter doesn't kick in, I will bypass the relay & jump it according to your instructions, basically, I guess closing the circuit. If the sled turns over, I guess I order a new relay & take the airbox off to install.( I just hate those stupid clamps that hold the boots on the throttle bodies, seems like when I get to the last one it always turns on me then I have to start over, lol!). If jumping it doesn't do anything, could be a problem with the starter.

 

[steiner]

jumping it doesn't do anything, could be a problem with the starter.

Yup. Then its in the starter. Either the brushes or the armature.
Brushes are easy, if it's the armature then a new/used starter is what you will need.