Starter Questions!

[Hooray!]

The only way the starter can turn at engine rpms would be if the one way starter clutch was siezed / stuck.

Has not happened to me but if you review old starter relay threads, there are a number of posts about the starter relay remaining engaged, keeping the starter engaged (I presume) and turning at engine rpm (claimed). So many that an LED kit was created that turns on when relay powers starter side and then should go off when you let go of the key. If the LED remains on, then the starter is engaged. Grizz may be able to chime in as I think he had some input on those old threads. When I got my sled I went back to the beginning and read I think through the first 500 or so threads to learn the ins and outs of the Nytro. Great Intel back there. I suspect you are also correct if the starter clutch had an issue you would not need power from relay to keep things engaged.

 

[74Nitro]

Has not happened to me but if you review old starter relay threads, there are a number of posts about the starter relay remaining engaged, keeping the starter engaged (I presume) and turning at engine rpm (claimed). So many that an LED kit was created that turns on when relay powers starter side and then should go off when you let go of the key. If the LED remains on, then the starter is engaged. Grizz may be able to chime in as I think he had some input on those old threads. When I got my sled I went back to the beginning and read I think through the first 500 or so threads to learn the ins and outs of the Nytro. Great Intel back there. I suspect you are also correct if the starter clutch had an issue you would not need power from relay to keep things engaged.

I've seen a starter relay stick on a high mile 07Apex, which fried the starter, because they just aren't designed to run that long. However, unless the one-way starter clutch is seized/stuck, the starter will not be forced to spin higher.
If the starter clutch actually does seize, the starter would actually be spinning much, much higher than the engine due to the gear ratio.

 

[4strokes]

I've seen a starter relay stick on a high mile 07Apex, which fried the starter, because they just aren't designed to run that long. However, unless the one-way starter clutch is seized/stuck, the starter will not be forced to spin higher.
If the starter clutch actually does seize, the starter would actually be spinning much, much higher than the engine due to the gear ratio.

correct, I doubt any hilliard has ever stuck engaged, if anything, they fail to grab. If somehow it were to happen, the starter would spin so fast it would come through the hood. the stuck relay spins the starter at cranking speed, eventually burning up beyond its duty cycle. also the only stuck relays I have ever seen were on mowers that wouldn't start and the owner held the key until the solenoid welded or melted.

 

[74Nitro]

correct, I doubt any hilliard has ever stuck engaged, if anything, they fail to grab. If somehow it were to happen, the starter would spin so fast it would come through the hood. the stuck relay spins the starter at cranking speed, eventually burning up beyond its duty cycle. also the only stuck relays I have ever seen were on mowers that wouldn't start and the owner held the key until the solenoid welded or melted.

Yup

 

[Hooray!]

Yup

I will try and locate the threads that talked about this from way way back, I may have misread what they were claiming...

 

[Beauryan Best]

NEVER USE A PRY BAR, BROKE MY DRAIN PAN... too much pressure on any one point and the metal is much thinner than it seems.

 

[kaleb.berbas]

Well last week my starter crapped out because my relay crapped out, starter is froze and the new relay just clicks. So now I'm doing this fun job of removing it. I don't have any questions about getting the starter out. My question is when I look on online at new starters I see some that are $100 and some that are $350 but all say I can use them in my nytro. What have people used for starters? Aftermarket or OEM? Thanks in advance.

I have a question about getting the starter out. I have the bolts out and everything but how do I get it out of the sled?

 

[Beauryan Best]

Stay far away from Chinese starters... They use trash parts like recycled soda cans cast with bubbles and brass bearings. Nothing except the hardware is interchangeable.
Easier to just tear apart and have a look, I've reglued/epoxied loose magnets (jammed up ~ possibly your problem) this way and came out fine... Otherwise don't toss it and save to buy OEM, set old starter aside for parts.

 

[YamahaHoss]

Thanks Sevey, I tried to clear up the ambiguous parts of all the other starter installation threads so a person familiar with a wrench but not a mechanic could follow it step by step. Thanks to those in the past that set the stage for this VERY SIMPLIFIED approach, great work!

You are exactly right, as you ease the motor mount bolts gently inward, there will be a moment when it passes out of the threaded collar and into the rubber mount, at this point the engine will drop down as you see a 1/4" or so. Easy way to know it is clear. Push mount bolts in slowly so they DO NOT drop out of the rubber portion of the mount. If they do, you just added removal of your a-arms and lower front plastics to your project as you can't access the bolts easily to re-insert them. This is where my 18" 1/4" extension worked perfect (wondered when I bought the 12" one when I would use it - added a 6" to it to get 18"). You can slip a 17mm socket on the 18" extension from the opposite side and capture the bolt head and gently put pressure on the bolt as you jack it into alignment and it simply slips back into the threaded collars, amazing again how simple that was.

Back to removal, once the bolts are clear, then you simply jack up the engine, first the suspension will decompress and very little engine up motion, then as the skis come off the concrete blocks (so now your 2x4x8" block on the jack in the only thing holding the sled in the front) the next few jack pulls only moves the engine up rotating easily on the rear engine mount bolt (very long bolt, side to side it appears). You don't need to touch the rear engine mount bolt, it allows rotation as is. Things were surprisingly stable with the three point support and i was comfortable being under it.

KEY is not to try to remove the starter while it is horizontal, if you do you have to push the engine up even more to clear the two casting bumps (red arrows below) for the bolts. The "drop out" of the starter people have mentioned means you have to go 50% more with the engine up, maybe even remove the steering shaft as the airbox starts to hit is, also stretches all the hoses connected I suspect (oil, coolant) and brings the radiator interference into play. All NOT required, instead of "drop out" the blue arrows show what I did, [1] pull starter out of engine by gently prying flat head screwdriver against engine and starter end, mine slid out easily as well lubricated inside [2] rotate starter vertical with the gear up as plenty of room above, then [3] while vertical slide down between bumps (red arrows). Not having to go that extra 1/2" to clear the bumps is huge, means the airbox does even come close to the steering shaft, the front engine mounts don't even move beyond the alignment threaded collars (which I suspect is why some have to mess with unscrewing these collars). Very simple, very limited engine motion required. I had my starter right there next to me, greases gear and o-ring and as I pulled the old starter out, aligned new one with it exactly and reversed the motion to get back up and in position. Wiggled the starter by rotating it every so slightly and the gear meshed into the engine gear like greased lightning, starter mounts aligned perfectly (lower bolt first, then upper). I was actually shocked how simple as I realized I just saved $1000 and it was not any harder than removing my skid! My old starter spins smoothly so likely only needs a brush kit ($36) and now I have a back up. I may look into the starter saver LED that tells you if the starter remains hot after starting as this can destroy it silently as it will be rotating at engine RPM (yikes!). Good luck, nuts anyone would disconnect anything other then front engine mount bolts to do this project let alone remove engine!

View attachment 136840

I have a few questions. Could you help me with my RS Venture starter replacement?

 

[YamahaHoss]

There is an LED kit that shows power to starter for just this reason. If you see it stay on after you start you have an indication your starter relay is engaged and starter will turn at engine rpm. Suggest change the starter relay when you do starter (I changed starter relay, main fuse, yamaha OEM starter, greased and loomed all wires), no issues since. Pics posted on my front end + rebuild thread here... Starter process detailed as well with the engine lift method. Good luck.

I can not find this LED light kit? Who carries that? Thx