Come on guys they are heavy but quality is going to weigh more its that simple. You guys are making them sound like they are twice as heavy. I start and stop in deep snow all the time with my notorious heavy sled the rx1 and it always takes right off. I have mountain ski on though with regular skis it plowed lots.
quebecmoutainrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
They are yamatons...my new sled is 212 lbs lighter than my Apex mountain..stock...yes the motor..but would rather work on it than deal with the weight..my son is 6-5 and 260..he still finds it a little heavy..but it still does the submarine thing when you let go of the gas in powder. 
..Trail sleds.. 
.
..Trail sleds.. .
212 lbs you weighed them yourself with the same amount of gas to be sure?
Super Sled
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Please take no offense to this, but 212 pounds seems too much. You bought a Polaris, right? I'd buy 160-ish tho. But a guy has to buy whatever will make him happy.
quebecmoutainrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The RMK PRO 163 is 438lbs and my S.C. Apex 162 is 640 lbs..both are dry..the xtra weight on the yam is the charger and the xtra RX-1 rad on the back for cooling.oil for the charger and more fliuds for the xtra rad....yes I weighed my sled...for the lbs for shipping to B.C.....You ant ever going to do this with a yammie unless they spend the money instead of us changiing everything to make it light..I love my yam in the open and climbibg..but in the trees..lol..and by the end of the day..lol..
I hope Yamaha never trades off quality and reliability for weight savings. To me the weight thing is not and never has been a issue. Yamaha should market their sleds as heavier because thats the cost of quality and reliability.
nytro man
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My biggest concern on the Apex's or vector's is lack of fuel range. Most of our riding is in Quebec and more range would be beneficial. It would be nice to get more than 200km's per tank of fuel. ( yes we ride hard )
Viper S
Extreme
Just sold my Attak GT. tired of the weight and $ to get it right. Cost me a grand to do it, but had a chance to get out of it and buying back my 02 Viper.... I was hopiong for a new light surprise this year, but will fix up the ViperI guess instead...
Grimm
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Wow, that is saying something, returning to an older sled...a slap in the face really.
Sasquatch
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Survey done!
Well I have had a few issues with my RX. The pro action suspension sucked. Probably more my fault though then the sleds. I think its my see food diet!
The stock ski's sucked floatation wise! Wider ski's help that out. So did the ZX2 because of the angle of attack.
Stiffer sway bar lessened body roll problem. 6'5 and overweight exagerated the body roll I think! I also like to sit and ride not hang off the side like a bike rider dragging a knee on the ground.
Bushings at 8,000 miles, donuts around the same time. Driveshaft at 9,000 miles. Driveshaft bearing at 13,000 miles and new brake pads and chain.
16,000 miles bushings getting loose a bit but not like at 8,000 miles, donuts are still good.
I'd take a new Apex and be happy with it weight wise! Do not want a Nytro at all and if Yami ever turns the Apex into a Nytro I will not buy one.
Power steering for long trail rides of 300 miles just seems right. 8 inch shaper bars make your arms tired by the 11th day and 2,100 miles of riding in Manitoba even if your name is Sasquatch! I can hardly wait to do it again.
Yamis have issues! Some of them boggle my mind a bit. Like designing a skid that instead running on a 1\4 inch of slider left to the line runs right on the line in a few miles. Why in the world would you want to run sliders on the very edge of used up as a normal thing to do? Its just so easy to fix!
Handwarmers! Yamaha! Come on!
Bushings! Ya a better quality setup would be nice!
The complaints about donuts being hard to change or spark plugs being hard to change kind of make me smile a bit when I think of the ford trucks. Proper way to change spark plugs is to remove the cab from the chassis. Using the special toll core the old plugs into two pieces and remove! All day job with a 1,000 dollar price tag!
I have only two real concerns with the new Apex! Premium gas and a smaller tank. Premium is hard to get around here when touring in places and this past winter I ran 118 miles till the light came on and a few more till I found gas. Lucky if a I had a half gallon left. Last thing I need is a smaller tank. Packing spare fuel takes me right back to two strokes and having to pack oil.
Lesser concerns are a larger windshield option (think touring style very large and ugly but works see pic) and will the XTX skid buckle under my rather large bulk!
Lesser yet are real mirrors (see pic). Touring requires them in my book. Touring bag that will hold a weeks worth of clothes and stuff (see pic). Forget about the crap saddle bags that Yami sells. To many issues with them to mention.
Buy a Venture you say! Not a chance! Unless they stuff the Apex motor in it! Would be the best thing they ever did in my books but Cat is the only one to ever make a rocket couch! 180hp touring sled! Sweet!
Would very much like to ride a new Apex XTX! Maybe next year! My RX is nearing 20,000 miles and may soon take a position as spare sled! To sell it would break my heart! I really like the sled. It has personality!
Will the Apex XTX?
Well I have had a few issues with my RX. The pro action suspension sucked. Probably more my fault though then the sleds. I think its my see food diet!
The stock ski's sucked floatation wise! Wider ski's help that out. So did the ZX2 because of the angle of attack.
Stiffer sway bar lessened body roll problem. 6'5 and overweight exagerated the body roll I think! I also like to sit and ride not hang off the side like a bike rider dragging a knee on the ground.
Bushings at 8,000 miles, donuts around the same time. Driveshaft at 9,000 miles. Driveshaft bearing at 13,000 miles and new brake pads and chain.
16,000 miles bushings getting loose a bit but not like at 8,000 miles, donuts are still good.
I'd take a new Apex and be happy with it weight wise! Do not want a Nytro at all and if Yami ever turns the Apex into a Nytro I will not buy one.
Power steering for long trail rides of 300 miles just seems right. 8 inch shaper bars make your arms tired by the 11th day and 2,100 miles of riding in Manitoba even if your name is Sasquatch! I can hardly wait to do it again.
Yamis have issues! Some of them boggle my mind a bit. Like designing a skid that instead running on a 1\4 inch of slider left to the line runs right on the line in a few miles. Why in the world would you want to run sliders on the very edge of used up as a normal thing to do? Its just so easy to fix!
Handwarmers! Yamaha! Come on!
Bushings! Ya a better quality setup would be nice!
The complaints about donuts being hard to change or spark plugs being hard to change kind of make me smile a bit when I think of the ford trucks. Proper way to change spark plugs is to remove the cab from the chassis. Using the special toll core the old plugs into two pieces and remove! All day job with a 1,000 dollar price tag!
I have only two real concerns with the new Apex! Premium gas and a smaller tank. Premium is hard to get around here when touring in places and this past winter I ran 118 miles till the light came on and a few more till I found gas. Lucky if a I had a half gallon left. Last thing I need is a smaller tank. Packing spare fuel takes me right back to two strokes and having to pack oil.
Lesser concerns are a larger windshield option (think touring style very large and ugly but works see pic) and will the XTX skid buckle under my rather large bulk!
Lesser yet are real mirrors (see pic). Touring requires them in my book. Touring bag that will hold a weeks worth of clothes and stuff (see pic). Forget about the crap saddle bags that Yami sells. To many issues with them to mention.
Buy a Venture you say! Not a chance! Unless they stuff the Apex motor in it! Would be the best thing they ever did in my books but Cat is the only one to ever make a rocket couch! 180hp touring sled! Sweet!
Would very much like to ride a new Apex XTX! Maybe next year! My RX is nearing 20,000 miles and may soon take a position as spare sled! To sell it would break my heart! I really like the sled. It has personality!
Will the Apex XTX?
Attachments
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
Sled Dog said:
Heavy does not equate quality. Why are motocross bikes so light? What about mountain bikes? Aircraft? Sports cars? Your RX-1 might take right off, but that's what a snowmobile should do, right? Try taking it off the groomed trail. What happens when you get it stuck or tip it on its side? Can you right it yourself? Can you lift the rear out of the trench you just dug? I know the Phazer engine is roughly 20 lbs heavier that most any 2 stroke...that's fine, its the price you have to pay for more moving parts and increased complexity. But why is my sled a good 80-100 lbs heavier than a comparable BRP? That's a lot of pig iron right there. There's a lot of ways to shed weight and actually increase strength through engineering. The engines don't make them that much heavier. EDIT: Less weight also means less wear on suspension components.
Ruckus said:
I am not saying it cant be done but it would increase the price. I am all for it if they do not trade in qualtiy and reliability for weight savings. The engine gear reduction unit is heavy if they built a clutch system to handle the revs and get rid of the gear reduction that would save some weight. Using more titanium would also but its expensive. Light motocross bike, light bicycle, air craft and sports cars are all expensive. I almost never ride trails and I cant remember the last time I got stuck.
low slung
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Same here,that four-stroke torque makes getting over deep snow much.much better than the rubber band 2 strokes.And theres no groom trails where i rider.YAMAHA fourstroke,thats how i roll.Sled Dog said:
Viper S
Extreme
deleletion
I rode a 4 stroke BRP Expedition all Winter, long track and light wt. No problems thus far with reliability. I'm not changing to another brand, but why can't Yamaha produce a product like that? As of this week, the 4 stroke Attak is gone and I'm back on a Viper!
I rode a 4 stroke BRP Expedition all Winter, long track and light wt. No problems thus far with reliability. I'm not changing to another brand, but why can't Yamaha produce a product like that? As of this week, the 4 stroke Attak is gone and I'm back on a Viper!
Off Trail Mike
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If I can chime in, .... 2 points come to mind:
1. The BRP Renegade 1200...... Reliable, and maybe 60 lbs lighter than our sleds. Personally I don't like them because the stock cockpit is a bit too small for my liking, but in terms of performance, they are excellent sleds and it proves a lightweight, durable 4 stroke powder sled can be built. I also think BRP is missing the point a bit on the 1200 by focusing so much effort on the ETEC. I would love to see one of these 1200's with a 153 tunnel and tipped up rails, ....an everyday mod done by 121/136/144 TY members
2. Go to the mountian Nytro forum and check out the 2010 AK Sled Projects http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=89011. Seat, battery, tunnel, excess plastic....extra plastic everywhere??, muffler, direct steering, suspension, rails, etc. etc, etc. This isn't a rant, but simply to say there are many, many components on these sled that are being redsigned by owners to lower weight while maintaining performance. My thinking is that saving simple weight by using better R&D and engineering (no carbon fiber or exotic titanium here) should not have much of an effect on sled cost. If our sleds weight 600 lbs and cost $12,000 for easy math, that's $20/pound. Saving 50 pounds, and I'll give Yami half of it back for engineering costs, should reduce costs $500 per sled. You ever tried pricing a 3D tool and die for an injection molding machine to produce a plastic body panel?....$$$$$$$ and lots of them, and cold plastic ain't cheap either.
My point is that the industry "weight" standard is now considerably below yami's. And if you take the 2 stroke engine wildcard out of the equation, the other manufacturers have done it with relative chassis reliablity and without driving up costs to the point of being prohibitive.
We all love our yami powerplants and their reliablity but hate their weight. Yami must improve their sled designs to get us closer to the weight "sweet spot", and we should expect it, otherwise, many guys like me will vacate the brand, and that would be really stupid, when Yami already have so much that is right about their sleds.....especially that engine!!! MHO.
....SO FAR.
OTM
1. The BRP Renegade 1200...... Reliable, and maybe 60 lbs lighter than our sleds. Personally I don't like them because the stock cockpit is a bit too small for my liking, but in terms of performance, they are excellent sleds and it proves a lightweight, durable 4 stroke powder sled can be built. I also think BRP is missing the point a bit on the 1200 by focusing so much effort on the ETEC. I would love to see one of these 1200's with a 153 tunnel and tipped up rails, ....an everyday mod done by 121/136/144 TY members
2. Go to the mountian Nytro forum and check out the 2010 AK Sled Projects http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=89011. Seat, battery, tunnel, excess plastic....extra plastic everywhere??, muffler, direct steering, suspension, rails, etc. etc, etc. This isn't a rant, but simply to say there are many, many components on these sled that are being redsigned by owners to lower weight while maintaining performance. My thinking is that saving simple weight by using better R&D and engineering (no carbon fiber or exotic titanium here) should not have much of an effect on sled cost. If our sleds weight 600 lbs and cost $12,000 for easy math, that's $20/pound. Saving 50 pounds, and I'll give Yami half of it back for engineering costs, should reduce costs $500 per sled. You ever tried pricing a 3D tool and die for an injection molding machine to produce a plastic body panel?....$$$$$$$ and lots of them, and cold plastic ain't cheap either.
My point is that the industry "weight" standard is now considerably below yami's. And if you take the 2 stroke engine wildcard out of the equation, the other manufacturers have done it with relative chassis reliablity and without driving up costs to the point of being prohibitive.
We all love our yami powerplants and their reliablity but hate their weight. Yami must improve their sled designs to get us closer to the weight "sweet spot", and we should expect it, otherwise, many guys like me will vacate the brand, and that would be really stupid, when Yami already have so much that is right about their sleds.....especially that engine!!! MHO.
....SO FAR.OTM
