Switching to an Apex

[Kevin]

Looked at 2 sleds so far and they aren't for me
I wish people would take care of their stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mile9c1]

What I meant is the operating costs without premium fuel AND oil will = A LOT less.....

The oil savings would be minimal, if any. I rode my 2-stroke Viper and V-Max over 1,200 miles this year and only used 2 gallons of oil if my math is correct. That's only $50 using Yamalube. How much does a 4-stroke oil change cost, not counting the several hours of labor? I assume 1 oil change per year.

 

[JROCK]

The cost savings become more evident the more kms you put on a year. 4000 kms is the oil change interval for the 4 strokes. Changing your own oil saves alot as well. With the little miles you rode you come out about the same as a 4 stroke but if you doubled the mileage you rode you would double the cost vs a 4 stroke.

 

[06dukeGT]

Hello All
I've been on the 2stroke side for a while, but I sold my SRX last night.
I'm interested in buying an Apex 2006-2007(ish)
I don't know anything about these sleds.
Is there any stuff that I should really watch of for or check when I start lookinf at sleds to buy this weekend?

Thanks[/q
If your planning on keeping it awhile, take time and find a real nice and clean one, I picked one up bout 1 1/2 year ago with 4k. The sled had spent its whole life in northern wi. very clean!! If it has higher mileage, make sure its had the normal repairs done! Wont regret selling your 2-stroker! Just wait til ya pin the throttle on an APEX! You'll be hooked

 

[Sasquatch]

From what I learned on the 2-stroke side, 91 burns slower/cooler than 87, thus preventing detonation. I think many people believe it burns cleaner and/or makes your sled faster.

As a motor is tuned to fire the plug at so many degrees before top dead center. The amount is based on how long it takes for the fuel to ignite. The timing is figured out so as to have maximum push on the piston on its downward stroke. If the motor is designed to run with 87 and you put 91 in which is a slower burning fuel, the fuel burn and expansion of the gas happens later in the pistons downward stroke giving less push on the piston. So slower burning fuel can give less power and increase fuel consumsion because of wasted energy. This is more likely to make the sled slower. It also can make for a less complete burn and therefore can leave unburnt gasses behind which is the opposite of a cleaner burn. Will you hurt the motor burning higher octane? Not really, worst is maybe a bit more soot build up. However there is no benefit in it! I do however run my tank in my old warrior dry (or siphon it out) and fill with premium on my last run as that is what will be in it for the summer. Don't want to leave it with ethonal crap for the off season. Same as all my small motors such as lawnmower, snowblower, wood splitter, chainsaw etc.

Now lets explain what happens if you run a lower octane fuel fuel in something designed for a higher octane. If the fuel has a quicker burn then what the motor is timed for then the expansion of gasses happens before the piston reached its optimal point for maximum push and can even work against it, as in the piston is still going up (compression stroke) while the gases are expanding. Preignition can be a very bad thing. The new 11 up's however have a knock sensor to reduce ignition timing to prevent damage. I burn premium in my 11 everywhere I can. I will fill with regular if that is all there is but refrain from full throttle just to feel safer about it. Next tank is premium again so in theory half tank of premium mixed with regular is still higher at maybe 89 octane, then half tank of 89 filled with premium makes 90 octane. I have had no issues and heard of none doing this.

Anyway my two cents!

 

[BADSLED]

I will always try to run 91 anyways

there's no performance gain..in fact there should be a performance loss! and also the money loss!

I disagree with the above statement. For a long time we have struggled with my uncles Apex performance only to find out running regular, 87 octane fuel being the culprit. Simple refuel to 91 non-ethanol brought the sled back to life. Not sure if his sled is just more sensitive running CR10EK plugs but the octane difference plays a significant role in the performance department. Perhaps NY fuel is running more 10% ethanol? Not sure but we have proved this by switching between two types of fuels.

 

[sx7001]

This is a quote from the service manual for the 06-10 Apex. It states 88 or higher. The motor will run on low or high, it just runs better on high.

Quote
"Regular unleaded gasoline (Pump Octane ; 88 or
higher)"

 

[Sasquatch]

This is a quote from the service manual for the 06-10 Apex. It states 88 or higher. The motor will run on low or high, it just runs better on high.

Quote
"Regular unleaded gasoline (Pump Octane ; 88 or
higher)"

Yep the 05 RX said the same. Mostly ran 87 and tried 91 a few times with no increase in performance. Best top end was on 87. But there is no harm in running 91.

 

[Sasquatch]

I will always try to run 91 anyways

there's no performance gain..in fact there should be a performance loss! and also the money loss!

I disagree with the above statement. For a long time we have struggled with my uncles Apex performance only to find out running regular, 87 octane fuel being the culprit. Simple refuel to 91 non-ethanol brought the sled back to life. Not sure if his sled is just more sensitive running CR10EK plugs but the octane difference plays a significant role in the performance department. Perhaps NY fuel is running more 10% ethanol? Not sure but we have proved this by switching between two types of fuels.

This is a quote from the service manual for the 06-10 Apex. It states 88 or higher. The motor will run on low or high, it just runs better on high.

Quote
"Regular unleaded gasoline (Pump Octane ; 88 or
higher)"

Yep the 05 RX said the same. They recommend 88 octane, on the 11 up they recommend 91. You could add octane boost and bump it up to 104 and still be within spec. Whether it runs better on higher or not is up to you. Yami is not saying it runs better on higher. They have set it to run on 88 and on the 11 up's 91 but with a fail safe built in.

Mostly ran 87 (RX) and tried 91 a few times with no increase in performance. Best top end was on 87. But there is no harm in running 91. In fact it seems the States has some crappy fuel so the 87 might even be 85 or lower and the premium could be 89 not 91 coming from the pump. High ethonol fuel sucks up water from the air. Not knowing how old it is could mean that it is saturated with moisture and burns like crap. So put in what makes ya feel good!

Soon even premium will contain ethonol. From that point on we are all screwed!

 

[sx7001]

I will always try to run 91 anyways

there's no performance gain..in fact there should be a performance loss! and also the money loss!

I disagree with the above statement. For a long time we have struggled with my uncles Apex performance only to find out running regular, 87 octane fuel being the culprit. Simple refuel to 91 non-ethanol brought the sled back to life. Not sure if his sled is just more sensitive running CR10EK plugs but the octane difference plays a significant role in the performance department. Perhaps NY fuel is running more 10% ethanol? Not sure but we have proved this by switching between two types of fuels.

This is a quote from the service manual for the 06-10 Apex. It states 88 or higher. The motor will run on low or high, it just runs better on high.

Quote
"Regular unleaded gasoline (Pump Octane ; 88 or
higher)"

Yep the 05 RX said the same. They recommend 88 octane, on the 11 up they recommend 91. You could add octane boost and bump it up to 104 and still be within spec. Whether it runs better on higher or not is up to you. Yami is not saying it runs better on higher. They have set it to run on 88 and on the 11 up's 91 but with a fail safe built in.

Mostly ran 87 (RX) and tried 91 a few times with no increase in performance. Best top end was on 87. But there is no harm in running 91. In fact it seems the States has some crappy fuel so the 87 might even be 85 or lower and the premium could be 89 not 91 coming from the pump. High ethonol fuel sucks up water from the air. Not knowing how old it is could mean that it is saturated with moisture and burns like crap. So put in what makes ya feel good!

Soon even premium will contain ethonol. From that point on we are all screwed!

Well around here the Apex's that run 91 are faster than the ones that use 87. What octane boost are you using to get 104??

 

[sheetwright]

Torco is the only way to go of you really feel it is needed for the higher octane

 

[Sasquatch]

Well around here the Apex's that run 91 are faster than the ones that use 87. What octane boost are you using to get 104??

Then run 91! I run 91 in my Apex too! Well unless all that there is at the pump is 87 :-(

 

[Rich Kay]

I will always try to run 91 anyways

there's no performance gain..in fact there should be a performance loss! and also the money loss!

I disagree with the above statement. For a long time we have struggled with my uncles Apex performance only to find out running regular, 87 octane fuel being the culprit. Simple refuel to 91 non-ethanol brought the sled back to life. Not sure if his sled is just more sensitive running CR10EK plugs but the octane difference plays a significant role in the performance department. Perhaps NY fuel is running more 10% ethanol? Not sure but we have proved this by switching between two types of fuels.

???????

 

[kviper]

I don't know what happened to who's sled but the ONLY reason for higher octane fuel is to control detonation (pre ignition from higher cylinder pressure's) due to more timing advance, higher compression, boost. High octane fuel burnes slower and cooler=less BTU's=less cylinder presure and less power. The 116 octane we run in our race sled's will not fire when it get's much bellow 20*F. Run what your motor is built for and not any more than needed.

 

[kviper]

One possible explanation for a pre 11 Apex making more power on premium could be that the 87 is not actually 87 and is detonating.