JERSEYJOE
Expert
SLED THEFT CANADA
Well I guess I am on of the lucky ones that never had a problem. I will say this, I have been doing a weekly tour of Quebec every year since 1996 and never had a problem. It is true that Quebec is a hot spot for theft, mostly in the really tourist attractions like St Donat. I have stayed in Mt Laurier dozens of nights and with big cables, locks and common sense have never had anything taken. We normally travel with 8 -10 guys. We did have one guy almost have his truck stolen back in 2002 in Ste Agate. Normally we stay in Valdor which in my opinion is safer than some of the closer destinations. This year we will saddle bag the Gaspe and do not expect any issues.
I will say this, we have always suspected that the sled / truck theft problem was a lot more than a few random guys. If you saddle bag it, the hotel staff knows that your truck will be there unattended for a week, giving thieves time to figure it out. Even with the most modern technology ( smart key, transponder) your truck could be on the tow hook an hour after you leave it. Over the years we have found that 3/4 and one ton diesel truck are more likely to dissappear due to their use in remote logging operations. While it is improper to alledge that law enforcement is directly involved, I think they view this issue as unimportant, but the point is well taken that Quebec's sledding industry relies on US involvement and perhaps someone up there should do something proactive.
So as far as advice, pick a starting / ending sport that is less travelled and avoid the hot spots like Le Cabanon, St. Donat.
Quebec offeres the best combination of trail quality, mapping and overall sled friendly coordination that I have ever experienced
Well I guess I am on of the lucky ones that never had a problem. I will say this, I have been doing a weekly tour of Quebec every year since 1996 and never had a problem. It is true that Quebec is a hot spot for theft, mostly in the really tourist attractions like St Donat. I have stayed in Mt Laurier dozens of nights and with big cables, locks and common sense have never had anything taken. We normally travel with 8 -10 guys. We did have one guy almost have his truck stolen back in 2002 in Ste Agate. Normally we stay in Valdor which in my opinion is safer than some of the closer destinations. This year we will saddle bag the Gaspe and do not expect any issues.
I will say this, we have always suspected that the sled / truck theft problem was a lot more than a few random guys. If you saddle bag it, the hotel staff knows that your truck will be there unattended for a week, giving thieves time to figure it out. Even with the most modern technology ( smart key, transponder) your truck could be on the tow hook an hour after you leave it. Over the years we have found that 3/4 and one ton diesel truck are more likely to dissappear due to their use in remote logging operations. While it is improper to alledge that law enforcement is directly involved, I think they view this issue as unimportant, but the point is well taken that Quebec's sledding industry relies on US involvement and perhaps someone up there should do something proactive.
So as far as advice, pick a starting / ending sport that is less travelled and avoid the hot spots like Le Cabanon, St. Donat.
Quebec offeres the best combination of trail quality, mapping and overall sled friendly coordination that I have ever experienced
actionjack
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Hmmm. Well as an actual victim of theft in Quebec on last years trip I will chime in. We lost a lot.
We have had our stuff stolen here at home and there in QC. We lost more in QC last year than we ever have at home. The language barrier makes it difficult. Arranging for transportation can be very tough. The Police are nice enough but sure don't seem very interested looking for your stuff. In fact I have them on video answering flatly NO to the question of whether or not to expect to find our vehicles.
This crime is done by organized crime so who knows who is involved. In my opinion the bad press in the mid 2000s gave them the incentive to do something about it if not at least make it more quiet. Due to our unusual border crossings we were brought in on the US side and the US guards then told us that the theft had "exploded" this season (which was last winter).
On the Monday that we arrived there was a news story in Montreal paper about a large bust of stolen vehicles. That was only a day or 2 before we became the victims. We only discovered because someone in our group got a ride back to the chalet due to a disabled sled. He arrived to find a carpenter replacing the door to the chalet and the parking area significantly less crowded than when we left days ago via snowmobile. The rest of us rode the rest of the way hoping it was a joke. Most of our personal effects in the chalet were taken as well.
The lady I rented the house from never contacted me. When I asked her why she hadn't notified us, her answer was she didn't want to stress us out on our vacation. I believe our vehicles made us targets. I suspect highly the rental people at least in part. The problem is you cannot know. You just must take as many precautions as possible and hope you do not need to active your deductible. A private rental off the beaten path used to be part of our security measures. Not any longer. I sure miss Bernard.
There are good people and bad people everywhere. Be careful with your #*$&@. I expect more news out of Quebec this season until it affects them enough again to get serious about enforcement.
We have had our stuff stolen here at home and there in QC. We lost more in QC last year than we ever have at home. The language barrier makes it difficult. Arranging for transportation can be very tough. The Police are nice enough but sure don't seem very interested looking for your stuff. In fact I have them on video answering flatly NO to the question of whether or not to expect to find our vehicles.
This crime is done by organized crime so who knows who is involved. In my opinion the bad press in the mid 2000s gave them the incentive to do something about it if not at least make it more quiet. Due to our unusual border crossings we were brought in on the US side and the US guards then told us that the theft had "exploded" this season (which was last winter).
On the Monday that we arrived there was a news story in Montreal paper about a large bust of stolen vehicles. That was only a day or 2 before we became the victims. We only discovered because someone in our group got a ride back to the chalet due to a disabled sled. He arrived to find a carpenter replacing the door to the chalet and the parking area significantly less crowded than when we left days ago via snowmobile. The rest of us rode the rest of the way hoping it was a joke. Most of our personal effects in the chalet were taken as well.
The lady I rented the house from never contacted me. When I asked her why she hadn't notified us, her answer was she didn't want to stress us out on our vacation. I believe our vehicles made us targets. I suspect highly the rental people at least in part. The problem is you cannot know. You just must take as many precautions as possible and hope you do not need to active your deductible. A private rental off the beaten path used to be part of our security measures. Not any longer. I sure miss Bernard.
There are good people and bad people everywhere. Be careful with your #*$&@. I expect more news out of Quebec this season until it affects them enough again to get serious about enforcement.
kingtut
Expert
It is what prevents a motorcycle from starting if it is not in neutral. Oviously sleds don't have this, but the same concept can be used with the tether idea and what not. Id prefur a ball and chain, but some people just don't have that option. Park it in 6 feet of snow and lock her down.Blue Dave said:kingtut said:Hidden kill switch is your best bet! A lot of people will move their neutral kill switch to another location and throw in a toggle switch on it. Glad you can ride it for one more year. Another idea is to put some kind of steering lock rig on the sled or somehow make it so it is easy to take off your ski at nighthard to go anywhere if you can't steer. Hook up a tether to it and pull it when you go in at night and it will never fire until they hook the 2 ends together which would take 30 mins too long if you're a theif.
What is a "neutral kill switch"? Any sort of a hidden kill switch or battery disconnect will do a good job of preventing someone from starting your sled and riding it away. However if the theives work as a crew they can lift up and load your sled onto a trailer or their truck without making a sound. This is where a good cable or chain and a lock works well. Lock it to another sled or something substantial. Of course they could cut your lock if they have the right tools but in the end all you are trying to do is to make your sled more difficult to steal than the other ones around it.
Ultrafrozen
Expert
I just had another thought: find the rattiest looking Artic Cat cover and drape it over the sled, nobody will touch it!
stevewithOCD
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LOL! Ok, i did get a little angry and do apologize to my northern brothers. Not all of Canada has the problem, mostly Quebec areas. The main reason this number hasn't gone over 60% is because how much attention most sledders put into locking up their sleds which busts my boiler just saying it. Most of these theft-proof products won't work. My friends sled was hooked with a chain and hook, dragged mile down road, where 4 guys lifted it in truck and took off. That was in broad daylight! Police wrote down info and said it would be apart tonight and shipped before they could find it. We know it was a local truck and people, that's one reason i believe higher ups are involved. Anyways, the moral of the story is, Canada has THE greatest trails in the world...just lock 'em up and know where you're staying..BTW, many of us wrote letters to Canadian officials with no answer back...Ultrafrozen said:
Could you send me copies of the emails sent so I can send them and get some reasons as to why they were not returned. I have wrote Premier's and the prime Minister and they both returned my email.
kidastra
Pro
Living in quebec I have to say I don't hear much about thefts. You need to understand here in Quebec everyone and their brother owns a sled once you get out of major cities, just by the volume of sleds here thefts will be more. I agree that if people see an "American" license plate they would be targeted more often then a local plate. Knowing that the people are from out of town and chances are they won't be back for a while makes it an easier choice. I agree there should be more "target vehicle traps" if one of those get stolen I'm sure it will lead to finding many more sleds. I'm almost thinking about installing a tracking system on my sled. I do feel bad for you guys though, you are missing out on some great trails, but I don't blame you. I'd hate having the fear of having my stuff go missing when I get back. Heck I just came back from a ride and I was thinking the entire time I hope my truck and trailer don't get stolen...
That's just not cool why do you people put up with it? Make the authorities do something about the problem get involved!
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I have to say, I was a little troubled by reading this thread, and maybe a little naieve since I live in an area where sled theft isn't a big issue. I do have a couple friends in law enforcement, and just called one to get his take on it, and if he's seen more theft that I've heard about in our area, etc.
His take/response was this:
"There is alot more of it in any area than most people hear about, but it's more prevalant in areas that are prone to more out of town riders. It's nearly impossible for law enforcement to track down a sled, motorcycle, quad, etc that can be so easilly hidden or dismantled in a very short time.
If someone from out of town (area, state, whatever) steals a sled, sticks it in their trailer and leaves town, there's little they can do besides check every vehicle leaving town - nearly impossible and not feasable for most law enforcement agencies. He's been on the police force during the Sturgis motorcycle rally a few times, and says there are dozens of thefts every year that are nearly impossible to find with the shear number of people and chaos that's already there.
He also went on to say that the best thing to do is have photos of your machine(s), a good insurance policy, and take any steps you can to lock it, store it inside, etc that you can. "
I personally think it's hard to blame the law enforcement agencies for turning the other cheek even though it's a gut wrenching experience to go through. It's the bad deeds of a few that spoil it for the rest of us for sure.
To respond to the topic of a battery disconnect, I've used a number of different brands on the cars I build at my day job, both for security, and battery protection.
This is a link to one that has a number of different models, including some that have either a button or a remote control to disconnect the battery. This is a U.K. company, but it looks as if they're available at most auto parts stores (Autozone, O'reilly, etc.) as well as Amazon, ebay, etc..
The ones I use are usually from a company called Flaming River, but have more components and take up more space than i think most would want in a sled, not to mention they're alot more expensive.
Here's a couple really cheap things to do to disable the electrical system:
1.- Take the small wire from the starter relay (connected with one of the positive cables on the realy), and extend that to wherever you would like to connect and hide a switch, and run it back to the relay from there. A potential theif would be able to crank your sled over, but the small wire is what powers the ecu... This can be done without having to worry about messing with the battery cables? If you hid the switch somewhere that snow wouldn't trip it, and you wouldn't have to remove the panels to activate it..
2. Do the same thing with the same wire, only install a heavy duty relay on that wire, and run a very small micro switch somewhere. It might be easier to hide a microswitch than a switch heavy enough to handle the load of the harness power wire, but will take a bit more wiring.
Just my $.02
His take/response was this:
"There is alot more of it in any area than most people hear about, but it's more prevalant in areas that are prone to more out of town riders. It's nearly impossible for law enforcement to track down a sled, motorcycle, quad, etc that can be so easilly hidden or dismantled in a very short time.
If someone from out of town (area, state, whatever) steals a sled, sticks it in their trailer and leaves town, there's little they can do besides check every vehicle leaving town - nearly impossible and not feasable for most law enforcement agencies. He's been on the police force during the Sturgis motorcycle rally a few times, and says there are dozens of thefts every year that are nearly impossible to find with the shear number of people and chaos that's already there.
He also went on to say that the best thing to do is have photos of your machine(s), a good insurance policy, and take any steps you can to lock it, store it inside, etc that you can. "
I personally think it's hard to blame the law enforcement agencies for turning the other cheek even though it's a gut wrenching experience to go through. It's the bad deeds of a few that spoil it for the rest of us for sure.
To respond to the topic of a battery disconnect, I've used a number of different brands on the cars I build at my day job, both for security, and battery protection.
This is a link to one that has a number of different models, including some that have either a button or a remote control to disconnect the battery. This is a U.K. company, but it looks as if they're available at most auto parts stores (Autozone, O'reilly, etc.) as well as Amazon, ebay, etc..
The ones I use are usually from a company called Flaming River, but have more components and take up more space than i think most would want in a sled, not to mention they're alot more expensive.
Here's a couple really cheap things to do to disable the electrical system:
1.- Take the small wire from the starter relay (connected with one of the positive cables on the realy), and extend that to wherever you would like to connect and hide a switch, and run it back to the relay from there. A potential theif would be able to crank your sled over, but the small wire is what powers the ecu... This can be done without having to worry about messing with the battery cables? If you hid the switch somewhere that snow wouldn't trip it, and you wouldn't have to remove the panels to activate it..
2. Do the same thing with the same wire, only install a heavy duty relay on that wire, and run a very small micro switch somewhere. It might be easier to hide a microswitch than a switch heavy enough to handle the load of the harness power wire, but will take a bit more wiring.
Just my $.02
snowdave
Veteran
quebec theft
THE PROBLEM IN QUEBEC IS VERY REAL AND OUT OF CONTROL AND HAS BEEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. I HAD A FRIEND STAYING IN ST. MICHELE LOOSE HIS TRUCK AND TRAILER NEVER TO BE FOUND. I HAD A APEX ATTACK 2 YEARS AGO DISMANTLED IN THE TRAILER PARKED AT A MOTEL. TRAILER WHEELS WERE CHAINED TO THE TRUCK FRAME SO THE THEIFS SOMEHOW KNEW THERE WAS A SPARE SLED IN TRAILER SO THEY CUT A HOLE IN THE ROOF AND SPENT TIME INSIDE TOTALLY STRIPING THE SLED. THIS WAS A 4 PLACE TRAILER AND IN FULL VIEW. NO ONE EVER SEEN ANYTHING AND POLICE SEEMED ANNOYED WE WERE EVEN BOTHERING THEM WITH OUR PROBLEM. THERE IS A LOT OF GREAT RIDING HERE IN us. I WILL NEVER SPEND ANOTHER PENNY SNOWMOBILING IN THAT #*$&@ HOLE QUEBEC!! PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE SOMETHING OR KNOW SOMETHING, NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE!!!
THE PROBLEM IN QUEBEC IS VERY REAL AND OUT OF CONTROL AND HAS BEEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. I HAD A FRIEND STAYING IN ST. MICHELE LOOSE HIS TRUCK AND TRAILER NEVER TO BE FOUND. I HAD A APEX ATTACK 2 YEARS AGO DISMANTLED IN THE TRAILER PARKED AT A MOTEL. TRAILER WHEELS WERE CHAINED TO THE TRUCK FRAME SO THE THEIFS SOMEHOW KNEW THERE WAS A SPARE SLED IN TRAILER SO THEY CUT A HOLE IN THE ROOF AND SPENT TIME INSIDE TOTALLY STRIPING THE SLED. THIS WAS A 4 PLACE TRAILER AND IN FULL VIEW. NO ONE EVER SEEN ANYTHING AND POLICE SEEMED ANNOYED WE WERE EVEN BOTHERING THEM WITH OUR PROBLEM. THERE IS A LOT OF GREAT RIDING HERE IN us. I WILL NEVER SPEND ANOTHER PENNY SNOWMOBILING IN THAT #*$&@ HOLE QUEBEC!! PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE SOMETHING OR KNOW SOMETHING, NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE!!!
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Welcome to TY snowdave! Please add your location to your profile.
actionjack
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Re: quebec theft
ST ZENON and ST MICHEL DES SAINTS are the hot spots for auto theft and sled theft.snowdave said:
Wire a Taser to the sled . . .
Just don't forget to deactivate it before you ride.
Think of all of the various enhancements you could make.
Include a cheap cell phone wired to allow you to activate via phone call.
Use a "time delay" to allow the would be thief time to get firmly seated.
Trigger a camera to take a picture of the perpetrator in case he is able to revive and sneak off before you find him.
Conceal the electronic gadgetry in water bottle or other typical sled attachment.
etc.
I think I may be on to something, where is Rock or Curt? I think I have a new product line.
What if you could simply walk up and zip tie a would be thief while he (or she) lays unconscious in the snow?
No sir, mister officer sir . . . I have no idea why that guy is layin there all zip tied in the snow next to my sled.
Just don't forget to deactivate it before you ride.
Think of all of the various enhancements you could make.
Include a cheap cell phone wired to allow you to activate via phone call.
Use a "time delay" to allow the would be thief time to get firmly seated.
Trigger a camera to take a picture of the perpetrator in case he is able to revive and sneak off before you find him.
Conceal the electronic gadgetry in water bottle or other typical sled attachment.
etc.
I think I may be on to something, where is Rock or Curt? I think I have a new product line.
What if you could simply walk up and zip tie a would be thief while he (or she) lays unconscious in the snow?
No sir, mister officer sir . . . I have no idea why that guy is layin there all zip tied in the snow next to my sled.
If you rigged the phone right you could have it call you or a listener program whenever your sled moved or was started while the system was activated. Then you could simply trigger the "ZAP" from the safety of your room. Wow the potential of modern electronics and connectivity.
Mooseman
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I am a police officer and I did take offense to some of the comments made, especially the one where the cops are in on it. The reality is that we can't be everywhere all the time. That's just reality, especially in rural areas where we have to deal with domestics, robberies, fatal accidents, home invasions and so on where there is probably just a couple of officers on the road for a wide area. I'm not saying it's not a priority, it's just not as high. If we do have a lead, we will follow it but 99% of the time, there is none. We can't follow a non existent lead. And in these days of budget cuts and lack of personnel, we can only do what we can with what we have. In a perfect world, we would do stings or sit on hot spots but the money and resources are just not there.
All you can do is make it harder for the thief so he'll move on to an easier target. Do you leave your car unlocked with all the Christmas gifts exposed in a mall parking lot? You take your precautions as best you can. A hidden kill switch would work, especially to the fuel pump or ignition, so that they will try to start it but get frustrated and scared of getting caught the longer they have to dick around with it. A cable, chain or bike lock painted fluorescent orange through the track and bumper and/or skid is an immediate visual deterrent. The only way either of these can be defeated would be to have a bunch of guys lift it onto a trailer. Less likely as this would expose them to being seen. Trying to cut a hardened lock would just expose them more to getting caught the longer they have to try and deal with it. You can also lock it onto another sled or solid post or pipe to prevent the lifting scenario.
All you can do is be smart and make it harder for a thief to get your sled. If they REALLY want it, they will get it no matter what.
And to say that Canada/Quebec/a town is bad for sled thefts is like saying the US/Maine/Sandy Hook is bad for mass shootings. This does nothing but create animosity. Both countries have problems with both. Let's direct our energy towards preventing them.
All you can do is make it harder for the thief so he'll move on to an easier target. Do you leave your car unlocked with all the Christmas gifts exposed in a mall parking lot? You take your precautions as best you can. A hidden kill switch would work, especially to the fuel pump or ignition, so that they will try to start it but get frustrated and scared of getting caught the longer they have to dick around with it. A cable, chain or bike lock painted fluorescent orange through the track and bumper and/or skid is an immediate visual deterrent. The only way either of these can be defeated would be to have a bunch of guys lift it onto a trailer. Less likely as this would expose them to being seen. Trying to cut a hardened lock would just expose them more to getting caught the longer they have to try and deal with it. You can also lock it onto another sled or solid post or pipe to prevent the lifting scenario.
All you can do is be smart and make it harder for a thief to get your sled. If they REALLY want it, they will get it no matter what.
And to say that Canada/Quebec/a town is bad for sled thefts is like saying the US/Maine/Sandy Hook is bad for mass shootings. This does nothing but create animosity. Both countries have problems with both. Let's direct our energy towards preventing them.
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