to ontario riders

[thunderbolt]

i'm buying 2 full passes in the coming weeks,i also think its a bargain for what you get,i can ride up to 7000 km in a season,that's 33 cent a km,imagine how much it costs to groom 1 km and i'm sure its more than 33 cents

It would cost me $1155 for a family season pass at the local ski hill. This doesn't include the gas to get there, food, equipment, etc.

Bought my sled passes already, just waiting to stick them on the three sleds.

I suppose your sleds run on freash air , and you you don't stop for lunch , and you ride naked . Do an honest comparision

 

[thunderbolt]

The point is there is not a lot we can do about most enities related to sledding , however combining the trail pass , val.tag and possible insurance could decrease the cost of getting on the snow and provide more revenue to the OFSC due to the fact that now every registered sled will be paying for a trail pass instead of only 60% now .

 

[Bigfish]

Very interesting discussion (all 12 pages of it)!

Not a fan of the proposed district system, as I don't tend to ride in one area. I would like to see the trail permit included with the val tag, however I not sure that the government can be trusted not to divert the funds into general funds in the future, just like they have done with gasoline road tax.

What I find interesting is this north/south mindset.
North - the southern clubs control the OFSC and we never see any $$$.
South - the north gets all the $$$ that's why we can't get any

I wonder where it does go???

 

[Sasquatch]

I have said what I have thought about the Price many times throughout this post so there is no need to continue, but I will add that I think that people who don't purchase a permit are using the Permits price as type of a Scapegoat to no longer purchase one. (JMO)

Irv that is what the OFSC thinks as well! Irv we know you are in favor of the OFSC, sometimes you sound you are talking from one of thier Pamphlets. This is great! Rally the troops!

Unfortunatly the clubs are also the scapegoat and bear the blame of the rising cost. But calling the permit a scapegoat does nothing to change the fact that people are not buying! The permit is their highest cost per year and that is something the OFSC and many people from the south don't get. To them they trailer to the snow they sleep in hotel rooms and blow huge amounts of money in the process! The trail pass seem cheap. Wish we had 700 more riders just like them here to support our trails.

In the North we open the garage door and go. Hard to talk a guy into buying a pass when he rides a few miles of trail a few times a year to get to a lake down a trail on crown land that was always free and kept open by the fisherman before the OFSC came along, before the clubs started grooming it and then try to tell him its worth 210 bucks. He figures we stole it from him and now want him to pay because we groom it. He wishes we would go away!

Same as the lake dwellers Hard to tell them that the strip of ice with the stakes now belongs to the OFSC and you must pay 210 dollars to use it. They will laugh at you! The whole lake is crown and they have used it for years and will continue to do so.

Because we have harassed these people for not buying a pass they spread their tales to the general public and turn the general public against us. This does nothing to help sell passes to the people who do use the trails as they see themselves as part of the underdog support!

So again make it on the Val Tag no more passes! If you can trust them to take a little you can trust them to take a lot. They are going to charge an administration fee either way. Do it right or not at all. We know how many sleds are registered in Ontario they (the government) can't lie about that. Its easy to see how much they bring in and how much sticks to them.

 

[Sasquatch]

What I find interesting is this north/south mindset.
North - the southern clubs control the OFSC and we never see any $$$.
South - the north gets all the $$$ that's why we can't get any

I wonder where it does go???

It goes to the north and south but because of lack of sales all around there is not enough to go around any more.

As far as the North blaming the south and the south blaming the north it has to do with the children of the OFSC. No one wants to blame the parent or they might be sent to their rooms with no funding at all so instead they blame each other. The parent does its best to make themselves look good as they need to keep control!

Then as always there are clubs that do things that make everyone go Huh! Next thing you know the rumor mill gets a hold of it and look out. Now the OFSC has someone to make an example of or hold close and support. Their choice!

Oh the Politics of it all!

 

[Sasquatch]

The point is there is not a lot we can do about most enities related to sledding , however combining the trail pass , val.tag and possible insurance could decrease the cost of getting on the snow and provide more revenue to the OFSC due to the fact that now every registered sled will be paying for a trail pass instead of only 60% now .

Damn I wish I could shake your hand and hug you! That is the key to it all! It will do the most to save the the OFSC and keep my trails open and me riding and smiling every day there is snow. I wish everyone would get it!

 

[Irv]

I have said what I have thought about the Price many times throughout this post so there is no need to continue, but I will add that I think that people who don't purchase a permit are using the Permits price as type of a Scapegoat to no longer purchase one. (JMO)

Irv that is what the OFSC thinks as well! Irv we know you are in favor of the OFSC, sometimes you sound you are talking from one of thier Pamphlets. This is great! Rally the troops!

Unfortunatly the clubs are also the scapegoat and bear the blame of the rising cost. But calling the permit a scapegoat does nothing to change the fact that people are not buying! The permit is their highest cost per year and that is something the OFSC and many people from the south don't get. To them they trailer to the snow they sleep in hotel rooms and blow huge amounts of money in the process! The trail pass seem cheap. Wish we had 700 more riders just like them here to support our trails.

In the North we open the garage door and go. Hard to talk a guy into buying a pass when he rides a few miles of trail a few times a year to get to a lake down a trail on crown land that was always free and kept open by the fisherman before the OFSC came along, before the clubs started grooming it and then try to tell him its worth 210 bucks. He figures we stole it from him and now want him to pay because we groom it. He wishes we would go away!

Same as the lake dwellers Hard to tell them that the strip of ice with the stakes now belongs to the OFSC and you must pay 210 dollars to use it. They will laugh at you! The whole lake is crown and they have used it for years and will continue to do so.

Because we have harassed these people for not buying a pass they spread their tales to the general public and turn the general public against us. This does nothing to help sell passes to the people who do use the trails as they see themselves as part of the underdog support!

So again make it on the Val Tag no more passes! If you can trust them to take a little you can trust them to take a lot. They are going to charge an administration fee either way. Do it right or not at all. We know how many sleds are registered in Ontario they (the government) can't lie about that. Its easy to see how much they bring in and how much sticks to them.

Sasquatch, I get what you are saying, I really do and after reading your post I understand more of the issues you are facing in the north.

But my question is, if the permit is lumped in with the Val tag (Which I think is a good idea) will those people not just avoid buying those as well or sell their sled altogether once they see the val tag is now a lot more expensive due to the permit being a part of it?

I know of fines etc for not having a val tag but how are you going to police it when one of the reasons people give up sledding is due to the amount of Police presence on the trails?

Just asking.

 

[thunderbolt]

Thanks for the kind words Sasquatch . I'm from the south however I am not involved for just me , I can afford the permit but the point is , is the price fair and should loyal riders keep taking the hit for thoses non compliant ? The 40% non compliant figure is not a figure I just pulled out of thin air , it was mentioned at the AGM and is i the stats on the OFSC site .Your points are well taken and I do agree with them, however how the funds are dolled out from the OFSC is a whole other problem .
As for right now getting riders back on board andgetting non compliant riders to be compliant , the only way is to get rid of the current permit system , include it in the val.tag , now all registered riders pay , instead of only 60% . Now if that is put in place we can work on fair distribution of funds .
Cheers Sasquatch maybe will pass on the trail sometime

 

[Dara]

One thing you need to remember about the Val tags.
Right now, in Northern Ontario, they are FREE

Putting something like a $100.00 price on them would sure help trails.

 

[hamrtyme]

does anyone know how many registered sleds there are in ontario?

does anyone know the number of permits sold in ontario?

 

[thunderbolt]

All theses facts about how many sleds are registered in ontario and how many permits are sold can be found in the stats. section of the OFSC site . As for val.tags being free in the north well that would have to change , you can't have your cke and eat it too , so they say

 

[oldguy2]

We had the same thing in Sask. The trail permits were separate from the registration and insurance. We had lots of riders with no trail permits so the clubs had to fend for themselves. Now, the Provincial govt. collects all the money from reg. trail permits, and insurance, and then distributes the money to all the clubs. How much the get is determined by the KM of trails, KM groomed, trail markers, etc. Very complicated formula but it seems to be starting to work. If a club does nothing, they get nothing. I should mention that we have govt. run insurance here so it wasn't complicated to add the trail permits. If your sled is registered you have a trail permit.

 

[thor452]

boy sure glad i only have to pay 35 every two years

 

[oldguy2]

Ours end up to be about $120 to $140 a year with liability insurance. More insurance costs more.

 

[thunderbolt]

Ours end up to be about $120 to $140 a year with liability insurance. More insurance costs more.

Can somebody please enlighten the OFSC . Please everybody read oldguy2's replies , the all in can work and be cheaper .
Thanks oldguy2 for your replies