to ontario riders

[scott32]

There is six more in my my group and we will not be sledding in Ontario. No refund or free pass from last years no snow in our area because soo many other places were open and we could trailer. Then trailer we will and the cost of trailering and permit will not exceed 100 dollars per rider. The ofsc can go four letter word themselves. just our 2 cents! and that's all they'll get out of us! Cheers

 

[hamrtyme]

There is six more in my my group and we will not be sledding in Ontario. No refund or free pass from last years no snow in our area because soo many other places were open and we could trailer. Then trailer we will and the cost of trailering and permit will not exceed 100 dollars per rider. The ofsc can go four letter word themselves. just our 2 cents! and that's they'll get out of us! Cheers

X2

 

[Irv]

Sorry to hear that but you guys need to go talk to your club and have them explain it to you better than I can as they are the OFSC!

The OFSC is not one entity, or one guy sitting in a Office, it is the accumulation of clubs or all clubs in total that are the OFSC.
Each club has a say and each club makes up the OFSC.

Hope you change your minds and buy a permit in Ontario because if this exodus continues, then organized snowmobile in Ontario will be done and we will all be back b#$%ing about how crappy the trails are

 

[pat the rat]

yep,your right,clubs decide what changes occur by votes,o.f.s.c ontario fedreration of SNOWMOBILES CLUBS

 

[thunderbolt]

yep,your right,clubs decide what changes occur by votes,o.f.s.c ontario fedreration of SNOWMOBILES CLUBS

Blind leading the blind . Wake up . Get more riders buying who are not now even if you only get 10 % more that is more in in dollars than constantly nickle and diming the regular riders 10 bucks every second year .Regional passes don't even go there way to many grey areas . include the permit price with the val.tag makes more sense , if the OFSC and MTO can get a common trust on the monies that is . If not I can only see more riders stop buying and then we have nothing
Just my opinion

 

[Sevey]

There are a lot of good points that have surfaced here but holding the OFSC ransom over the climate is foolish. I read a commentary late last winter where an OFSC rep was quoted "if we could have opened trails in areas - we would have" its just that some areas flat out had no snow.

There were trails that did open last winter and at times were in awesome condition. I spoke to some locals that indicated the groomer operators were running more than usual to keep their trails in good condition due to the higher volume on them. I was even told some clubs had equipment floated in from clubs not operating their machines to put more groomers out there to keep the trails buffed up. This does not sound like an unattentive group to me. I am not going to throw the guys under the bus that worked tirelessly to keep what little riding we had - in great condition. Mother nature threw us a terrible winter last year and it made me recognize if we are going to take part in this recreation we have to be prepared to travel. Lets hope this winter shapes up.....

Having said that, I have always been a believer in volume sales. The ofsc will have to contemplate (with each price hike) in the not so distant future if snowmobiling is destined to be an eliteist sport or whether its one that the masses can afford. Regardless of the reason to increase cost, each hike increases the aggregrate cost of doing this sport. I personally like their idea of a lower ticket for those with older sleds being incented to buy a pass. I would also like to see offering passes on a sliding scale, for multiple sleds under the same ownership. Servicing 3 to 4 sleds now to all run the trails is tall proposition. Makes it tougher to get a family involved for sure.

Like it or not, the 'federation' may not be perfect and may need to be tweeked, but having organized riding throughout most of the province is huge selling feature to a guy like me. The minute it fragments and I dont have a network of trails to ride, the appeal of sledding will be lost and sleds will be sold. The individual clubs that 'are' the OFSC, work incredible hard to link geographic areas across the province. I would rather continue support, offering constructive feedback to the federeation helping only to make it better.
MS

 

[thunderbolt]

There are a lot of good points that have surfaced here but holding the OFSC ransom over the climate is foolish. I read a commentary late last winter where an OFSC rep was quoted "if we could have opened trails in areas - we would have" its just that some areas flat out had no snow.

There were trails that did open last winter and at times were in awesome condition. I spoke to some locals that indicated the groomer operators were running more than usual to keep their trails in good condition due to the higher volume on them. I was even told some clubs had equipment floated in from clubs not operating their machines to put more groomers out there to keep the trails buffed up. This does not sound like an unattentive group to me. I am not going to throw the guys under the bus that worked tirelessly to keep what little riding we had - in great condition. Mother nature threw us a terrible winter last year and it made me recognize if we are going to take part in this recreation we have to be prepared to travel. Lets hope this winter shapes up.....

Having said that, I have always been a believer in volume sales. The ofsc will have to contemplate (with each price hike) in the not so distant future if snowmobiling is destined to be an eliteist sport or whether its one that the masses can afford. Regardless of the reason to increase cost, each hike increases the aggregrate cost of doing this sport. I personally like their idea of a lower ticket for those with older sleds being incented to buy a pass. I would also like to see offering passes on a sliding scale, for multiple sleds under the same ownership. Servicing 3 to 4 sleds now to all run the trails is tall proposition. Makes it tougher to get a family involved for sure.

Like it or not, the 'federation' may not be perfect and may need to be tweeked, but having organized riding throughout most of the province is huge selling feature to a guy like me. The minute it fragments and I dont have a network of trails to ride, the appeal of sledding will be lost and sleds will be sold. The individual clubs that 'are' the OFSC, work incredible hard to link geographic areas across the province. I would rather continue support, offering constructive feedback to the federeation helping only to make it better.
MS

I don't think the OFSC is being held ransom at all , any reasonable rider understands mother nature . What they don't understand is simple why are they being nickel and dimed to death with permit increases and no real efforts to address non permit buying riders . Enforcement is not the answer . bringing everything into one (example val. tag and permit combined ) would certainly increase revenues and lower cost sense more riders actually being legal

 

[Sevey]

That comment has surfaced many times throughout this post. On the surface it makes a ton of sense. On the other hand, where do you start? This would have to be done a much higher level than you and I (no offence). The ofsc would have to initiate this at provincial level and with which goverment body - the MTO? It would be interesting to reach out to the ceo or president of the OFSC and discuss this initiative. At the very least they could canvass Ont riders and get a pole result to see if membership supports it.
Great idea, now what......
MS

 

[thunderbolt]

That comment has surfaced many times throughout this post. On the surface it makes a ton of sense. On the other hand, where do you start? This would have to be done a much higher level than you and I (no offence). The ofsc would have to initiate this at provincial level and with which goverment body - the MTO? It would be interesting to reach out to the ceo or president of the OFSC and discuss this initiative. At the very least they could canvass Ont riders and get a pole result to see if membership supports it.
Great idea, now what......
MS

exactly , at least try to get riders on board .But by suggesting ways to mask the cost , with alternatives such as regional permits, surcharges to your val. tag etc... which when you do the math is no lower prices at all and will only continue to lose more riders

 

[SledFreak]

That comment has surfaced many times throughout this post. On the surface it makes a ton of sense. On the other hand, where do you start? This would have to be done a much higher level than you and I (no offence). The ofsc would have to initiate this at provincial level and with which goverment body - the MTO? It would be interesting to reach out to the ceo or president of the OFSC and discuss this initiative. At the very least they could canvass Ont riders and get a pole result to see if membership supports it.
Great idea, now what......
MS

They had the chance when they approached the governnment to make the trails LAW. THey did the LAW part for permits, but forgot funding. I don't believe OFSC wants the governmnet running it. They just want the money. IMO, their on the ropes and grasping for air. The pitch to the government is easy. Lose the 50million dollar industry or get them to make it law on the val tags. 41.00 bucks a year for registered snowmobiles.

 

[thunderbolt]

That comment has surfaced many times throughout this post. On the surface it makes a ton of sense. On the other hand, where do you start? This would have to be done a much higher level than you and I (no offence). The ofsc would have to initiate this at provincial level and with which goverment body - the MTO? It would be interesting to reach out to the ceo or president of the OFSC and discuss this initiative. At the very least they could canvass Ont riders and get a pole result to see if membership supports it.
Great idea, now what......
MS

They had the chance when they approached the governnment to make the trails LAW. THey did the LAW part for permits, but forgot funding. I don't believe OFSC wants the governmnet running it. They just want the money. IMO, their on the ropes and grasping for air. The pitch to the government is easy. Lose the 50million dollar industry or get them to make it law on the val tags. 41.00 bucks a year for registered snowmobiles.

Absolutely and lower the permit price to an affordable level and see the volume of sales increase . But lowering the permit price only to pay it in a surcharge on your val.tag is no savings to the rider at all , a lower combined price would certainly give the sport a shot in the arm that it desperately needs and then leave it alone and not start the nickel and dime process again

 

[Irv]

There are a lot of good points that have surfaced here but holding the OFSC ransom over the climate is foolish. I read a commentary late last winter where an OFSC rep was quoted "if we could have opened trails in areas - we would have" its just that some areas flat out had no snow.

There were trails that did open last winter and at times were in awesome condition. I spoke to some locals that indicated the groomer operators were running more than usual to keep their trails in good condition due to the higher volume on them. I was even told some clubs had equipment floated in from clubs not operating their machines to put more groomers out there to keep the trails buffed up. This does not sound like an unattentive group to me. I am not going to throw the guys under the bus that worked tirelessly to keep what little riding we had - in great condition. Mother nature threw us a terrible winter last year and it made me recognize if we are going to take part in this recreation we have to be prepared to travel. Lets hope this winter shapes up.....
Having said that, I have always been a believer in volume sales. The ofsc will have to contemplate (with each price hike) in the not so distant future if snowmobiling is destined to be an eliteist sport or whether its one that the masses can afford. Regardless of the reason to increase cost, each hike increases the aggregrate cost of doing this sport. I personally like their idea of a lower ticket for those with older sleds being incented to buy a pass. I would also like to see offering passes on a sliding scale, for multiple sleds under the same ownership. Servicing 3 to 4 sleds now to all run the trails is tall proposition. Makes it tougher to get a family involved for sure.

Like it or not, the 'federation' may not be perfect and may need to be tweeked, but having organized riding throughout most of the province is huge selling feature to a guy like me. The minute it fragments and I dont have a network of trails to ride, the appeal of sledding will be lost and sleds will be sold. The individual clubs that 'are' the OFSC, work incredible hard to link geographic areas across the province. I would rather continue support, offering constructive feedback to the federeation helping only to make it better.
MS

Excellent post Sevey, well said

 

[Irv]

That comment has surfaced many times throughout this post. On the surface it makes a ton of sense. On the other hand, where do you start? This would have to be done a much higher level than you and I (no offence). The ofsc would have to initiate this at provincial level and with which goverment body - the MTO? It would be interesting to reach out to the ceo or president of the OFSC and discuss this initiative. At the very least they could canvass Ont riders and get a pole result to see if membership supports it.
Great idea, now what......
MS

They had the chance when they approached the governnment to make the trails LAW. THey did the LAW part for permits, but forgot funding. I don't believe OFSC wants the governmnet running it. They just want the money. IMO, their on the ropes and grasping for air. The pitch to the government is easy. Lose the 50million dollar industry or get them to make it law on the val tags. 41.00 bucks a year for registered snowmobiles.

The OFSC is not the Gov't nor the law, and you're right, I don't believe they want anymore Gov't interaction than what is already in place and absolutely necessary.

I know you're a Gov't employee, (just don't know at what level) but so am I and I can honestly say I don't want anymore of their interaction either! At least not with this current Gov't

 

[SledFreak]

There are a lot of good points that have surfaced here but holding the OFSC ransom over the climate is foolish. I read a commentary late last winter where an OFSC rep was quoted "if we could have opened trails in areas - we would have" its just that some areas flat out had no snow.

There were trails that did open last winter and at times were in awesome condition. I spoke to some locals that indicated the groomer operators were running more than usual to keep their trails in good condition due to the higher volume on them. I was even told some clubs had equipment floated in from clubs not operating their machines to put more groomers out there to keep the trails buffed up. This does not sound like an unattentive group to me. I am not going to throw the guys under the bus that worked tirelessly to keep what little riding we had - in great condition. Mother nature threw us a terrible winter last year and it made me recognize if we are going to take part in this recreation we have to be prepared to travel. Lets hope this winter shapes up.....

Having said that, I have always been a believer in volume sales. The ofsc will have to contemplate (with each price hike) in the not so distant future if snowmobiling is destined to be an eliteist sport or whether its one that the masses can afford. Regardless of the reason to increase cost, each hike increases the aggregrate cost of doing this sport. I personally like their idea of a lower ticket for those with older sleds being incented to buy a pass. I would also like to see offering passes on a sliding scale, for multiple sleds under the same ownership. Servicing 3 to 4 sleds now to all run the trails is tall proposition. Makes it tougher to get a family involved for sure.

Like it or not, the 'federation' may not be perfect and may need to be tweeked, but having organized riding throughout most of the province is huge selling feature to a guy like me. The minute it fragments and I dont have a network of trails to ride, the appeal of sledding will be lost and sleds will be sold. The individual clubs that 'are' the OFSC, work incredible hard to link geographic areas across the province. I would rather continue support, offering constructive feedback to the federeation helping only to make it better.
MS

I don't think the OFSC is being held ransom at all , any reasonable rider understands mother nature . What they don't understand is simple why are they being nickel and dimed to death with permit increases and no real efforts to address non permit buying riders . Enforcement is not the answer . bringing everything into one (example val. tag and permit combined ) would certainly increase revenues and lower cost sense more riders actually being legal

x2.... Well said... No one is holding OFSC accountable based on mother nature. Its all has to do with pricing the permits and figuring out how to bring more snowmobilers back to the groomed trails. Raising the prices is not the answer. OFSC does not understand that you dont need groomed trails to ride. Not as much fun, but it is doable. Like I said earlier... The U.S prices have a great system and so does Quebec... ie.. Insurance and permit included at a good price... States is 45.00 in MI just for the permit. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED...

I live on a border town and will be riding in the U.S all this year.

IRV, I agree with you with this government, but, done right, it is the way to go...

 

[Irv]

There are a lot of good points that have surfaced here but holding the OFSC ransom over the climate is foolish. I read a commentary late last winter where an OFSC rep was quoted "if we could have opened trails in areas - we would have" its just that some areas flat out had no snow.

There were trails that did open last winter and at times were in awesome condition. I spoke to some locals that indicated the groomer operators were running more than usual to keep their trails in good condition due to the higher volume on them. I was even told some clubs had equipment floated in from clubs not operating their machines to put more groomers out there to keep the trails buffed up. This does not sound like an unattentive group to me. I am not going to throw the guys under the bus that worked tirelessly to keep what little riding we had - in great condition. Mother nature threw us a terrible winter last year and it made me recognize if we are going to take part in this recreation we have to be prepared to travel. Lets hope this winter shapes up.....

Having said that, I have always been a believer in volume sales. The ofsc will have to contemplate (with each price hike) in the not so distant future if snowmobiling is destined to be an eliteist sport or whether its one that the masses can afford. Regardless of the reason to increase cost, each hike increases the aggregrate cost of doing this sport. I personally like their idea of a lower ticket for those with older sleds being incented to buy a pass. I would also like to see offering passes on a sliding scale, for multiple sleds under the same ownership. Servicing 3 to 4 sleds now to all run the trails is tall proposition. Makes it tougher to get a family involved for sure.

Like it or not, the 'federation' may not be perfect and may need to be tweeked, but having organized riding throughout most of the province is huge selling feature to a guy like me. The minute it fragments and I dont have a network of trails to ride, the appeal of sledding will be lost and sleds will be sold. The individual clubs that 'are' the OFSC, work incredible hard to link geographic areas across the province. I would rather continue support, offering constructive feedback to the federeation helping only to make it better.
MS

I don't think the OFSC is being held ransom at all , any reasonable rider understands mother nature . What they don't understand is simple why are they being nickel and dimed to death with permit increases and no real efforts to address non permit buying riders . Enforcement is not the answer . bringing everything into one (example val. tag and permit combined ) would certainly increase revenues and lower cost sense more riders actually being legal

x2.... Well said... No one is holding OFSC accountable based on mother nature. Its all has to do with pricing the permits and figuring out how to bring more snowmobilers back to the groomed trails. Raising the prices is not the answer. OFSC does not understand that you dont need groomed trails to ride. Not as much fun, but it is doable. Like I said earlier... The U.S prices have a great system and so does Quebec... ie.. Insurance and permit included at a good price... States is 45.00 in MI just for the permit. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED...

I live on a border town and will be riding in the U.S all this year.

IRV, I agree with you with this government, but, done right, it is the way to go...

Although I agree raising the prices this year was bad timing, keep in mind that anything that was implemented/voted in favor for at the AGM is 2yrs old as that is how long it takes for the motion to be enacted.
I also believe they are trying, and an example of that is the Classic Permit. I believe it was implemented in order to bring back some lost riders and hopefully gain some new ones who were on the fence about sledding?

I totally disagree with the "Groomed Trails" comment as they did a survey a few yrs ago and the vast majority of riders "wants" groomed trails.
Unless of course you're talking about no groomed trails anywhere if the OFSC was no longer around? Imo, if that were the case, you would see a mass exodus giving up sledding altogether.

Comparing us to the U.S. or even Quebec is not comparing apples to apples as there are too many varying laws, rules, policies etc amongst them.
I am not saying we can't learn from them, what I am saying is it would more than likely be impossible to have the same exact same system due to differring regulations and laws.