to ontario riders

[Irv]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

Again Irv I belong to a club! So does anyone who buys a pass. They are members! I went one step further and have and still do have a position on the club exec. I have been part of a lobby (pass on the registration) to the OFSC at the AGM. That Lobby was heard and the President of the OFSC at the time was interested. The OFSC is aware but like most large political style bodys either ignores, thereby there is no problem or offers bandaids which help a little but only slow the bleeding. The classic pass was the first step in the right direction!

The southern clubs could not see the problem and the Lobby died for a mutitude of reasons. Mostly though however lack of support! Now many years later after more and more clubs have folded and huge gaps have started to form in the OFSC's cross Ontario trail system we hear about a regional pass. But still there is resistance and lack of support from those who just say everyone is B*^*(ing and complaining.

Those at the top know there is a problem because of the B*^((ing and complaining. Thier choice to stick thier head in the sand is denial! I think everyone should raise such a stink that the OFSC can no longer avoid breathing it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And Irv people are voicing thier opinions at the club level both at the meetings and huge number by not buying a passes every year. The clubs voice their opinions at the district level and at the AGM. I guess the OFSC is now hearing about it on the internet level as well. Perfect! I love it! Yell it to the roof tops!

I love the trails and work to keep them going but the loss of trail passes sold is affecting me. As far as me me goes yep I'm worried about me and everyone else as well, of course maybe that part is not noticed! I'm only a volunteer!

Good post Sasquatch.

What I was referring to as me, me, me was the posts I have seen at FS where some members say they want this, they want that, it should be like this, you should do this, I think it would be better if, etc etc etc.
To me that is slamming the current volunteers and everything they have done and do!
To me, it sounds like these types are not happy with what has been done and only look at what needs to be done in their opinion, all the while they have never volunteered one minute of their time.

With everything that has been tried that you said, what is the path forward?
I honestly don't know what else can be done if it was brought forth at the AGM and turned down?
I only know, and this is just my opinion, if you want changes then you must join a club and proceed from there or else get use to the current ones making the decisions for you.

Also, am I not correct when I say this latest increase was agreed upon 2yrs ago?
Please tell the members above if that is indeed the case?

I am not sure what else I can say that hasn't already been said?
To me, if your not happy, and for example don't like the fact that the trails aren't open when the snow flies, then do something about it rather than ragging on the volunteers, (who are not paid for their time and only volunteer when they can) who have worked their butts off at least getting the trails to where they are!

I know most clubs are constantly looking for volunteers to help out as there is never enough but the ones who complain the most are the ones who have NEVER helped or volunteered one minute of their time, ever!.

 

[thunderbolt]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

Again Irv I belong to a club! So does anyone who buys a pass. They are members! I went one step further and have and still do have a position on the club exec. I have been part of a lobby (pass on the registration) to the OFSC at the AGM. That Lobby was heard and the President of the OFSC at the time was interested. The OFSC is aware but like most large political style bodys either ignores, thereby there is no problem or offers bandaids which help a little but only slow the bleeding. The classic pass was the first step in the right direction!

The southern clubs could not see the problem and the Lobby died for a mutitude of reasons. Mostly though however lack of support! Now many years later after more and more clubs have folded and huge gaps have started to form in the OFSC's cross Ontario trail system we hear about a regional pass. But still there is resistance and lack of support from those who just say everyone is B*^*(ing and complaining.

Those at the top know there is a problem because of the B*^((ing and complaining. Thier choice to stick thier head in the sand is denial! I think everyone should raise such a stink that the OFSC can no longer avoid breathing it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And Irv people are voicing thier opinions at the club level both at the meetings and huge number by not buying a passes every year. The clubs voice their opinions at the district level and at the AGM. I guess the OFSC is now hearing about it on the internet level as well. Perfect! I love it! Yell it to the roof tops!

I love the trails and work to keep them going but the loss of trail passes sold is affecting me. As far as me me goes yep I'm worried about me and everyone else as well, of course maybe that part is not noticed! I'm only a volunteer!

Good post Sasquatch.

What I was referring to as me, me, me was the posts I have seen at FS where some members say they want this, they want that, it should be like this, you should do this, I think it would be better if, etc etc etc.
To me that is slamming the current volunteers and everything they have done and do!
To me, it sounds like these types are not happy with what has been done and only look at what needs to be done in their opinion, all the while they have never volunteered one minute of their time.

With everything that has been tried that you said, what is the path forward?
I honestly don't know what else can be done if it was brought forth at the AGM and turned down?
I only know, and this is just my opinion, if you want changes then you must join a club and proceed from there or else get use to the current ones making the decisions for you.

Also, am I not correct when I say this latest increase was agreed upon 2yrs ago?
Please tell the members above if that is indeed the case?

I am not sure what else I can say that hasn't already been said?
To me, if your not happy, and for example don't like the fact that the trails aren't open when the snow flies, then do something about it rather than ragging on the volunteers, (who are not paid for their time and only volunteer when they can) who have worked their butts off at least getting the trails to where they are!

I know most clubs are constantly looking for volunteers to help out as there is never enough but the ones who complain the most are the ones who have NEVER helped or volunteered one minute of their time, ever!.

Well if you want to address what you read on another forum then please do it there. Nobody has slamed any volunteers in this post.
I have been to the last three AGM'S and just my opinion their has been no discussion as to getting non compliant riders back on board or getting them on board to start with . If they had to purchase an all inclusive val. tag which included the trail pass I think we could see that 40% that are non compliant now decrease drasticly.

 

[thunderbolt]

I also feel there is alot of personal opinions at the AGM and that doesn't reflect the true rider population . I'd like to hear from everyone not just thoses who can afford the rising cost and could careless about the average rider and feel that if they can't afford it get out , and yes I've herd that exact statement .

 

[Irv]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

Again Irv I belong to a club! So does anyone who buys a pass. They are members! I went one step further and have and still do have a position on the club exec. I have been part of a lobby (pass on the registration) to the OFSC at the AGM. That Lobby was heard and the President of the OFSC at the time was interested. The OFSC is aware but like most large political style bodys either ignores, thereby there is no problem or offers bandaids which help a little but only slow the bleeding. The classic pass was the first step in the right direction!

The southern clubs could not see the problem and the Lobby died for a mutitude of reasons. Mostly though however lack of support! Now many years later after more and more clubs have folded and huge gaps have started to form in the OFSC's cross Ontario trail system we hear about a regional pass. But still there is resistance and lack of support from those who just say everyone is B*^*(ing and complaining.

Those at the top know there is a problem because of the B*^((ing and complaining. Thier choice to stick thier head in the sand is denial! I think everyone should raise such a stink that the OFSC can no longer avoid breathing it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And Irv people are voicing thier opinions at the club level both at the meetings and huge number by not buying a passes every year. The clubs voice their opinions at the district level and at the AGM. I guess the OFSC is now hearing about it on the internet level as well. Perfect! I love it! Yell it to the roof tops!

I love the trails and work to keep them going but the loss of trail passes sold is affecting me. As far as me me goes yep I'm worried about me and everyone else as well, of course maybe that part is not noticed! I'm only a volunteer!

Good post Sasquatch.

What I was referring to as me, me, me was the posts I have seen at FS where some members say they want this, they want that, it should be like this, you should do this, I think it would be better if, etc etc etc.
To me that is slamming the current volunteers and everything they have done and do!
To me, it sounds like these types are not happy with what has been done and only look at what needs to be done in their opinion, all the while they have never volunteered one minute of their time.

With everything that has been tried that you said, what is the path forward?
I honestly don't know what else can be done if it was brought forth at the AGM and turned down?
I only know, and this is just my opinion, if you want changes then you must join a club and proceed from there or else get use to the current ones making the decisions for you.

Also, am I not correct when I say this latest increase was agreed upon 2yrs ago?
Please tell the members above if that is indeed the case?

I am not sure what else I can say that hasn't already been said?
To me, if your not happy, and for example don't like the fact that the trails aren't open when the snow flies, then do something about it rather than ragging on the volunteers, (who are not paid for their time and only volunteer when they can) who have worked their butts off at least getting the trails to where they are!

I know most clubs are constantly looking for volunteers to help out as there is never enough but the ones who complain the most are the ones who have NEVER helped or volunteered one minute of their time, ever!.

Well if you want to address what you read on another forum then please do it there. Nobody has slamed any volunteers in this post.
I have been to the last three AGM'S and just my opinion their has been no discussion as to getting non compliant riders back on board or getting them on board to start with . If they had to purchase an all inclusive val. tag which included the trail pass I think we could see that 40% that are non compliant now decrease drasticly.

I think you should go back and read what has been written here TB.

There is no direct slam to the volunteers but by stating what some have said here, it is still a slam or put down imo.

I know Sevey picked up on it as well, and imo, his is the best post in this thread so far!

Personally, I am done with this post as it is just turning into a b#$%* fest and nothing is coming of it.
Like I said, if your not happy, then get out from behind the computer and do something about it, then pray for snow and a return to more prosperious times

 

[Sasquatch]

I agree how to get the non compliant riders back on board! Big issue and the tag on registration not only does this but also leave the volunteers more time to work on trails and less time checking trail passes. Hundreds of hours spent on the trails IMHO does more for the trails and gives the clubs a better reputation all around then hundreds of hours stopping sledders!

Nobody seems to like enforcment and those who enforce. I'm sure if you where stopped three times a day or more to see your licence, insurance etc you would be pissed about it. Why do we have to put up trail blocks and stop riders? To me that is the police that should be doing that not trail patrol. Let them take the heat!

All that has happened from the increasing trail pass price is volunteers going face to face with non compliant riders. Sure the non compliant's are in the wrong but the volunteer getting in thier face does nothing to boost the feeling towards the club. To me looking after the trails and or helping as an director ect is all a volunteer should be expected to do.

Pass on val tag frees up manpower all around and makes confrontation a thing of the past. JMHO!

Continue to lobby the OFSC via clubs and distric directors presidents ect and keep talking about change is the road to follow. To me pass on tag is the answer. I will however fully support a regional trail pass. At least I stand a better chance of selling that!

 

[SledFreak]

I agree how to get the non compliant riders back on board! Big issue and the tag on registration not only does this but also leave the volunteers more time to work on trails and less time checking trail passes. Hundreds of hours spent on the trails IMHO does more for the trails and gives the clubs a better reputation all around then hundreds of hours stopping sledders!

Nobody seems to like enforcment and those who enforce. I'm sure if you where stopped three times a day or more to see your licence, insurance etc you would be pissed about it. Why do we have to put up trail blocks and stop riders? To me that is the police that should be doing that not trail patrol. Let them take the heat!

All that has happened from the increasing trail pass price is volunteers going face to face with non compliant riders. Sure the non compliant's are in the wrong but the volunteer getting in thier face does nothing to boost the feeling towards the club. To me looking after the trails and or helping as an director ect is all a volunteer should be expected to do.

Pass on val tag frees up manpower all around and makes confrontation a thing of the past. JMHO!

Continue to lobby the OFSC via clubs and distric directors presidents ect and keep talking about change is the road to follow. To me pass on tag is the answer. I will however fully support a regional trail pass. At least I stand a better chance of selling that!

Well said!

IRV, You are out of touch with the riders. You sound exactly like the people that run the OFSC. It has nothing to do with Volunteers/volunteering. The price of the permit has nothing to do with Volunteers of each Club. The issue is the Price Point and the quality of the trails as far as grooming is concerned. PERIOD!!!! OFSC sets the price, CORRECT?

 

[Irv]

I agree how to get the non compliant riders back on board! Big issue and the tag on registration not only does this but also leave the volunteers more time to work on trails and less time checking trail passes. Hundreds of hours spent on the trails IMHO does more for the trails and gives the clubs a better reputation all around then hundreds of hours stopping sledders!

Nobody seems to like enforcment and those who enforce. I'm sure if you where stopped three times a day or more to see your licence, insurance etc you would be pissed about it. Why do we have to put up trail blocks and stop riders? To me that is the police that should be doing that not trail patrol. Let them take the heat!

All that has happened from the increasing trail pass price is volunteers going face to face with non compliant riders. Sure the non compliant's are in the wrong but the volunteer getting in thier face does nothing to boost the feeling towards the club. To me looking after the trails and or helping as an director ect is all a volunteer should be expected to do.

Pass on val tag frees up manpower all around and makes confrontation a thing of the past. JMHO!

Continue to lobby the OFSC via clubs and distric directors presidents ect and keep talking about change is the road to follow. To me pass on tag is the answer. I will however fully support a regional trail pass. At least I stand a better chance of selling that!

Well said!

IRV, You are out of touch with the riders. You sound exactly like the people that run the OFSC. It has nothing to do with Volunteers/volunteering. The price of the permit has nothing to do with Volunteers of each Club. The issue is the Price Point and the quality of the trails as far as grooming is concerned. PERIOD!!!! OFSC sets the price, CORRECT?

And you are out of touch finacially!

On one hand hand you say the trails are 50% junk half the time, and that the OFSC needs to groom 24/7, but yet you complain about the price of the permit

Where exactly do you think the money is going to come from to pay for fuel, the groomers, the insurance and the rate some places HAVE to pay the groomer operators because they can't get enough volunteers to do it!

Here is another example of critizing volunteers, you say you are not happy with the current state of your trails and not once have I heard from you that you're greatful for what they have done, just what they haven't done or do!

When is the last time you have offered to groom late at night, or anytime for that matter?

Anyways, here is a good news story and one that shows at least the OFSC is doing what it can where it can, and to me proves that they are not just sitting on their hands doing nothing

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) has recently approved the upgrading of the snowmobile trail designation which connects Mattawa to North Bay on the north side of the Mattawa River.

The upgraded status is now a Trans Ontario Provincial (TOP) Connector instead of local club trails. The new TOP Connector trail has been designated as TOP A112A and replaces the North Bay Snowmobilers Club NB301 trail as well as the Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club trails MA105 and MA101 and will be shown as such on the new District 11 Trail Map.

The new TOP Collector tail is 91 kilometres in length and connects to the TOP A trail south of Mattawa and the TOP A2 trail east of Trout Lake in North Bay. The Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club initiated the request to the OFSC with support from the North Bay Snowmobilers Club.

Jeff McGirr, Economic Development Officer for the Mattawa – Bonfield Economic Development Corporation, is very pleased with the OFSC’s decision as he thinks that the large number of touring snowmobilers will be attracted to the higher designation of TOP Connector and this will undoubtedly bring more snowmobile traffic into the Mattawa and Bonfield areas. Mr. McGirr says that the increasing popularity of the RAP (Round Algonquin Park) Tour is generating much more tourism business over the past few years, and he thinks the new TOP A112A trail designation will only help draw more sledders to this area.

In addition, the already popular loop between North Bay and Mattawa will undoubtedly increase in popularity as many snowmobilers will now travel TOP A along the south side of Highway 17 and then take the TOP A112A back along the north side of Highway 17.

The President of the North Bay Snowmobilers Club, Brian Baker, says another important impact of the new OFSC TOP Collector designation will be the increased availability of trail infrastructure funding that is available from the Ontario Tourist Development Fund. Local trails are not currently eligible for TDF funding and Mr. Baker advises that NBSC will now be applying for funding for new bridges over both Balsam Creek and the North River as a consequence of the OFSC’s upgrade in trail status.

Both the North Bay and Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Clubs have commenced selling of Trail Permits for the 2012 – 2013 snowmobiling season. For further information see www.mattawasc.ca and www.nbsc.ca

 

[thunderbolt]

I agree how to get the non compliant riders back on board! Big issue and the tag on registration not only does this but also leave the volunteers more time to work on trails and less time checking trail passes. Hundreds of hours spent on the trails IMHO does more for the trails and gives the clubs a better reputation all around then hundreds of hours stopping sledders!

Nobody seems to like enforcment and those who enforce. I'm sure if you where stopped three times a day or more to see your licence, insurance etc you would be pissed about it. Why do we have to put up trail blocks and stop riders? To me that is the police that should be doing that not trail patrol. Let them take the heat!

All that has happened from the increasing trail pass price is volunteers going face to face with non compliant riders. Sure the non compliant's are in the wrong but the volunteer getting in thier face does nothing to boost the feeling towards the club. To me looking after the trails and or helping as an director ect is all a volunteer should be expected to do.

Pass on val tag frees up manpower all around and makes confrontation a thing of the past. JMHO!

Continue to lobby the OFSC via clubs and distric directors presidents ect and keep talking about change is the road to follow. To me pass on tag is the answer. I will however fully support a regional trail pass. At least I stand a better chance of selling that!

Well said!

IRV, You are out of touch with the riders. You sound exactly like the people that run the OFSC. It has nothing to do with Volunteers/volunteering. The price of the permit has nothing to do with Volunteers of each Club. The issue is the Price Point and the quality of the trails as far as grooming is concerned. PERIOD!!!! OFSC sets the price, CORRECT?

And you are out of touch finacially!

On one hand hand you say the trails are 50% junk half the time, and that the OFSC needs to groom 24/7, but yet you complain about the price of the permit

Where exactly do you think the money is going to come from to pay for fuel, the groomers, the insurance and the rate some places HAVE to pay the groomer operators because they can't get enough volunteers to do it!

Here is another example of critizing volunteers, you say you are not happy with the current state of your trails and not once have I heard from you that you're greatful for what they have done, just what they haven't done or do!

When is the last time you have offered to groom late at night, or anytime for that matter?

Anyways, here is a good news story and one that shows at least the OFSC is doing what it can where it can, and to me proves that they are not just sitting on their hands doing nothing

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) has recently approved the upgrading of the snowmobile trail designation which connects Mattawa to North Bay on the north side of the Mattawa River.

The upgraded status is now a Trans Ontario Provincial (TOP) Connector instead of local club trails. The new TOP Connector trail has been designated as TOP A112A and replaces the North Bay Snowmobilers Club NB301 trail as well as the Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club trails MA105 and MA101 and will be shown as such on the new District 11 Trail Map.

The new TOP Collector tail is 91 kilometres in length and connects to the TOP A trail south of Mattawa and the TOP A2 trail east of Trout Lake in North Bay. The Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club initiated the request to the OFSC with support from the North Bay Snowmobilers Club.

Jeff McGirr, Economic Development Officer for the Mattawa – Bonfield Economic Development Corporation, is very pleased with the OFSC’s decision as he thinks that the large number of touring snowmobilers will be attracted to the higher designation of TOP Connector and this will undoubtedly bring more snowmobile traffic into the Mattawa and Bonfield areas. Mr. McGirr says that the increasing popularity of the RAP (Round Algonquin Park) Tour is generating much more tourism business over the past few years, and he thinks the new TOP A112A trail designation will only help draw more sledders to this area.

In addition, the already popular loop between North Bay and Mattawa will undoubtedly increase in popularity as many snowmobilers will now travel TOP A along the south side of Highway 17 and then take the TOP A112A back along the north side of Highway 17.

The President of the North Bay Snowmobilers Club, Brian Baker, says another important impact of the new OFSC TOP Collector designation will be the increased availability of trail infrastructure funding that is available from the Ontario Tourist Development Fund. Local trails are not currently eligible for TDF funding and Mr. Baker advises that NBSC will now be applying for funding for new bridges over both Balsam Creek and the North River as a consequence of the OFSC’s upgrade in trail status.

Both the North Bay and Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Clubs have commenced selling of Trail Permits for the 2012 – 2013 snowmobiling season. For further information see www.mattawasc.ca and www.nbsc.ca

I thought you said you were done with this Irv?You say Sledfreak is outta touch financially?Lots of big talk and what does all this trail talk have to do with what we are talking about getting a affordable price for permits and getting thoses who ride for free to come on board

 

[Irv]

I agree how to get the non compliant riders back on board! Big issue and the tag on registration not only does this but also leave the volunteers more time to work on trails and less time checking trail passes. Hundreds of hours spent on the trails IMHO does more for the trails and gives the clubs a better reputation all around then hundreds of hours stopping sledders!

Nobody seems to like enforcment and those who enforce. I'm sure if you where stopped three times a day or more to see your licence, insurance etc you would be pissed about it. Why do we have to put up trail blocks and stop riders? To me that is the police that should be doing that not trail patrol. Let them take the heat!

All that has happened from the increasing trail pass price is volunteers going face to face with non compliant riders. Sure the non compliant's are in the wrong but the volunteer getting in thier face does nothing to boost the feeling towards the club. To me looking after the trails and or helping as an director ect is all a volunteer should be expected to do.

Pass on val tag frees up manpower all around and makes confrontation a thing of the past. JMHO!

Continue to lobby the OFSC via clubs and distric directors presidents ect and keep talking about change is the road to follow. To me pass on tag is the answer. I will however fully support a regional trail pass. At least I stand a better chance of selling that!

Well said!

IRV, You are out of touch with the riders. You sound exactly like the people that run the OFSC. It has nothing to do with Volunteers/volunteering. The price of the permit has nothing to do with Volunteers of each Club. The issue is the Price Point and the quality of the trails as far as grooming is concerned. PERIOD!!!! OFSC sets the price, CORRECT?

And you are out of touch finacially!

On one hand hand you say the trails are 50% junk half the time, and that the OFSC needs to groom 24/7, but yet you complain about the price of the permit

Where exactly do you think the money is going to come from to pay for fuel, the groomers, the insurance and the rate some places HAVE to pay the groomer operators because they can't get enough volunteers to do it!

Here is another example of critizing volunteers, you say you are not happy with the current state of your trails and not once have I heard from you that you're greatful for what they have done, just what they haven't done or do!

When is the last time you have offered to groom late at night, or anytime for that matter?

Anyways, here is a good news story and one that shows at least the OFSC is doing what it can where it can, and to me proves that they are not just sitting on their hands doing nothing

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) has recently approved the upgrading of the snowmobile trail designation which connects Mattawa to North Bay on the north side of the Mattawa River.

The upgraded status is now a Trans Ontario Provincial (TOP) Connector instead of local club trails. The new TOP Connector trail has been designated as TOP A112A and replaces the North Bay Snowmobilers Club NB301 trail as well as the Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club trails MA105 and MA101 and will be shown as such on the new District 11 Trail Map.

The new TOP Collector tail is 91 kilometres in length and connects to the TOP A trail south of Mattawa and the TOP A2 trail east of Trout Lake in North Bay. The Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Club initiated the request to the OFSC with support from the North Bay Snowmobilers Club.

Jeff McGirr, Economic Development Officer for the Mattawa – Bonfield Economic Development Corporation, is very pleased with the OFSC’s decision as he thinks that the large number of touring snowmobilers will be attracted to the higher designation of TOP Connector and this will undoubtedly bring more snowmobile traffic into the Mattawa and Bonfield areas. Mr. McGirr says that the increasing popularity of the RAP (Round Algonquin Park) Tour is generating much more tourism business over the past few years, and he thinks the new TOP A112A trail designation will only help draw more sledders to this area.

In addition, the already popular loop between North Bay and Mattawa will undoubtedly increase in popularity as many snowmobilers will now travel TOP A along the south side of Highway 17 and then take the TOP A112A back along the north side of Highway 17.

The President of the North Bay Snowmobilers Club, Brian Baker, says another important impact of the new OFSC TOP Collector designation will be the increased availability of trail infrastructure funding that is available from the Ontario Tourist Development Fund. Local trails are not currently eligible for TDF funding and Mr. Baker advises that NBSC will now be applying for funding for new bridges over both Balsam Creek and the North River as a consequence of the OFSC’s upgrade in trail status.

Both the North Bay and Mattawa and Area Snowmobile Clubs have commenced selling of Trail Permits for the 2012 – 2013 snowmobiling season. For further information see www.mattawasc.ca and www.nbsc.ca

I thought you said you were done with this Irv?You say Sledfreak is outta touch financially?Lots of big talk and what does all this trail talk have to do with what we are talking about getting a affordable price for permits and getting thoses who ride for free to come on board

Guess I couldn't help myself as I can't believe what I read.

Asking the OFSC to cut permit costs then asking them to spend more money on grooming?

I guess you and me think differently TB as I can't see the prices going lower when the cost of everything else has risen dramatically.

A lot on here are asking for $100 dollar permits again, and I don't see that as being a problem, as long as we can get the groomer manu's to cut their groomer prices in half, cut insurance prices in half, cut gas prices in half, cut what it cost to make signs, posters, ads and everything else in half too. Should be easy shouldn't it?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as like what I have stated, I think the permit price is fair and is still a good bargain considering what we get for it.

 

[Sasquatch]

I think its the OFSC`s stand on all this. Say there is no problem and when funds fall short raise the price of the pass loosing even more permit sales. Continue to do this dog chasing its tail till finally one day the light bulb finally comes on then dims! Then they make a half hearted attempt to come up with a solution. They know the fix! They know the problem but mostly I think they thrive on denial.

Every time another club folds the OFSC rushes in to keep thier TOP trail open. They listen to the woes and ignore the trail pass story and tell the surrounding clubs that they have to push the value of the trail pass. They have to be less negative and stop talking about the price of a pass. they have to figure out why the members are dropping out and come up with new ways to get riders back. Any and all solutions ,comments are heard as long as you do not bring up people say the pass is to high so they will not buy. They just turn deaf and change the subject to something they say is more positive!

Its the head in the sand problem! We all know how much the trails cost but it is something that needs to be faced by all sledders. First we need to get all sledders on board that is problem one. Raising the price of the pass only makes us fewer in number.

 

[thunderbolt]

I think its the OFSC`s stand on all this. Say there is no problem and when funds fall short raise the price of the pass loosing even more permit sales. Continue to do this dog chasing its tail till finally one day the light bulb finally comes on then dims! Then they make a half hearted attempt to come up with a solution. They know the fix! They know the problem but mostly I think they thrive on denial.

Every time another club folds the OFSC rushes in to keep thier TOP trail open. They listen to the woes and ignore the trail pass story and tell the surrounding clubs that they have to push the value of the trail pass. They have to be less negative and stop talking about the price of a pass. they have to figure out why the members are dropping out and come up with new ways to get riders back. Any and all solutions ,comments are heard as long as you do not bring up people say the pass is to high so they will not buy. They just turn deaf and change the subject to something they say is more positive!

Its the head in the sand problem! We all know how much the trails cost but it is something that needs to be faced by all sledders. First we need to get all sledders on board that is problem one. Raising the price of the pass only makes us fewer in number.

Sasquatch your right on the money , and Irv Im not even mentioning grooming , however one club at the AGM this year mentioned they didn't even move the track on the groomer last year , but when you look at their published grooming hours , they claim 200 hundred hours , anyway thats not my issue in this post , my issue is clear from my very first responce affordable permits for all and getting non compliant riders on board . Just because some well off people don't care about the rising cost and feel that the permit cost is the cheapest part of snowmobilig , that doesn't speak for all riders and I get the flavor the OFSC feels the same otherwise they would see the obvious and do something about it

 

[Irv]

I think its the OFSC`s stand on all this. Say there is no problem and when funds fall short raise the price of the pass loosing even more permit sales. Continue to do this dog chasing its tail till finally one day the light bulb finally comes on then dims! Then they make a half hearted attempt to come up with a solution. They know the fix! They know the problem but mostly I think they thrive on denial.

Every time another club folds the OFSC rushes in to keep thier TOP trail open. They listen to the woes and ignore the trail pass story and tell the surrounding clubs that they have to push the value of the trail pass. They have to be less negative and stop talking about the price of a pass. they have to figure out why the members are dropping out and come up with new ways to get riders back. Any and all solutions ,comments are heard as long as you do not bring up people say the pass is to high so they will not buy. They just turn deaf and change the subject to something they say is more positive!

Its the head in the sand problem! We all know how much the trails cost but it is something that needs to be faced by all sledders. First we need to get all sledders on board that is problem one. Raising the price of the pass only makes us fewer in number.

Sasquatch your right on the money , and Irv Im not even mentioning grooming , however one club at the AGM this year mentioned they didn't even move the track on the groomer last year , but when you look at their published grooming hours , they claim 200 hundred hours , anyway thats not my issue in this post , my issue is clear from my very first responce affordable permits for all and getting non compliant riders on board . Just because some well off people don't care about the rising cost and feel that the permit cost is the cheapest part of snowmobilig , that doesn't speak for all riders and I get the flavor the OFSC feels the same otherwise they would see the obvious and do something about it

And what do we do about that, were they reported?
As you can see, many issues/problems exist and lowering the price of the permit is not going to fix them all.

Like I have mentioned before, we need snow bad and a return to more prosperious times, as imo this will contribute the most to the falling permit sales and help get non-compliant riders back to purchasing again.

Plus, I also think more education needs to be done to get these people off the "bash the permit price" mindset!
When you consider everything and look at everything price related about snowmobiling and what the average guy spends alone on insurance and gas for the year, let alone gear, accessories, mods etc then you can realize what a great baragain it actually is!

And for those thinking it, I have never once made the Gov't $100,000 list, I am a single income earner with one son and a stay at home wife.

 

[thunderbolt]

I think its the OFSC`s stand on all this. Say there is no problem and when funds fall short raise the price of the pass loosing even more permit sales. Continue to do this dog chasing its tail till finally one day the light bulb finally comes on then dims! Then they make a half hearted attempt to come up with a solution. They know the fix! They know the problem but mostly I think they thrive on denial.

Every time another club folds the OFSC rushes in to keep thier TOP trail open. They listen to the woes and ignore the trail pass story and tell the surrounding clubs that they have to push the value of the trail pass. They have to be less negative and stop talking about the price of a pass. they have to figure out why the members are dropping out and come up with new ways to get riders back. Any and all solutions ,comments are heard as long as you do not bring up people say the pass is to high so they will not buy. They just turn deaf and change the subject to something they say is more positive!

Its the head in the sand problem! We all know how much the trails cost but it is something that needs to be faced by all sledders. First we need to get all sledders on board that is problem one. Raising the price of the pass only makes us fewer in number.

Sasquatch your right on the money , and Irv Im not even mentioning grooming , however one club at the AGM this year mentioned they didn't even move the track on the groomer last year , but when you look at their published grooming hours , they claim 200 hundred hours , anyway thats not my issue in this post , my issue is clear from my very first responce affordable permits for all and getting non compliant riders on board . Just because some well off people don't care about the rising cost and feel that the permit cost is the cheapest part of snowmobilig , that doesn't speak for all riders and I get the flavor the OFSC feels the same otherwise they would see the obvious and do something about it

And what do we do about that, were they reported?
As you can see, many issues/problems exist and lowering the price of the permit is not going to fix them all.

Like I have mentioned before, we need snow bad and a return to more prosperious times, as imo this will contribute the most to the falling permit sales and help get non-compliant riders back to purchasing again.

Plus, I also think more education needs to be done to get these people off the "bash the permit price" mindset!
When you consider everything and look at everything price related about snowmobiling and what the average guy spends alone on insurance and gas for the year, let alone gear, accessories, mods etc then you can realize what a great baragain it actually is!

And for those thinking it, I have never once made the Gov't $100,000 list, I am a single income earner with one son and a stay at home wife.

Irv your way off side ! GET WTH THE PROGRAM!!! The average rider compliant and non compliant (who I may add makes up the majority of the rider base)is not going to come back with the inflated permit prices snow or not .How long do you figure the rich and famous are going to put up with this nonsense . Look at the figures the current system and pricing is not working , OFSC is losing more and more riders every year and its not just the lack of snow . How high does it have to go before you say enough?By the way I buy faithfully but I'm listening to the ones who are average riders who hae had enough and like I said they are compliant and non compliant theses are the ones that make up te sport not the handfull that show up at the AGM. I happen to know for a fact that our club has two voting deligates and before the convention there is no disscussion at our club meeting of what the proposed motions are so therefore its only thoses two degigates opinions being herd .
What district are you with and are you going to be at the snowmobile show representing your club . I'd love to meet you

 

[ecopter]

Irv, who are you to tell me (and hundreds of others) how I should freely and willingly open my wallet without complaint, just beause I spend a lot of other "associated" monies in this recreation?

For me and those hundreds of others, it comes down to the price. Lower the price and I'll (we'll) be back. If 5000 US sledders no longer cross the border to ride in Ontario 'cause their tired of the constant permit increase due to its point of being ridiculous, how much money is being lost? What if the OFSC lowered the price to $100 and those 5000 sledders decided that it was now feasible and worth the trip north? Would they rather have $500,000 at $100 a permit, or $0 at the current price? This is simple economics.

Your constant barrage of rationalization on why it's worth it and why we're ignorant for complaining about the price is very poor business savy. It will eventually culminate to the demise of Ontario sledding. This is a real issue that those in charge must take a serious look. To insist year after year that those who pay must pay for those who don't or won't will topple the fort.

The increase in price psychology (due to increase expenditures) only works when every citizen is involved (like taxes). Snowmobile ownership is an elective activity, so by increasing prices, you end up alienating a large faction; you cannot ask the remaining to keep giving more and more.

 

[Irv]

I think its the OFSC`s stand on all this. Say there is no problem and when funds fall short raise the price of the pass loosing even more permit sales. Continue to do this dog chasing its tail till finally one day the light bulb finally comes on then dims! Then they make a half hearted attempt to come up with a solution. They know the fix! They know the problem but mostly I think they thrive on denial.

Every time another club folds the OFSC rushes in to keep thier TOP trail open. They listen to the woes and ignore the trail pass story and tell the surrounding clubs that they have to push the value of the trail pass. They have to be less negative and stop talking about the price of a pass. they have to figure out why the members are dropping out and come up with new ways to get riders back. Any and all solutions ,comments are heard as long as you do not bring up people say the pass is to high so they will not buy. They just turn deaf and change the subject to something they say is more positive!

Its the head in the sand problem! We all know how much the trails cost but it is something that needs to be faced by all sledders. First we need to get all sledders on board that is problem one. Raising the price of the pass only makes us fewer in number.

Sasquatch your right on the money , and Irv Im not even mentioning grooming , however one club at the AGM this year mentioned they didn't even move the track on the groomer last year , but when you look at their published grooming hours , they claim 200 hundred hours , anyway thats not my issue in this post , my issue is clear from my very first responce affordable permits for all and getting non compliant riders on board . Just because some well off people don't care about the rising cost and feel that the permit cost is the cheapest part of snowmobilig , that doesn't speak for all riders and I get the flavor the OFSC feels the same otherwise they would see the obvious and do something about it

And what do we do about that, were they reported?
As you can see, many issues/problems exist and lowering the price of the permit is not going to fix them all.

Like I have mentioned before, we need snow bad and a return to more prosperious times, as imo this will contribute the most to the falling permit sales and help get non-compliant riders back to purchasing again.

Plus, I also think more education needs to be done to get these people off the "bash the permit price" mindset!
When you consider everything and look at everything price related about snowmobiling and what the average guy spends alone on insurance and gas for the year, let alone gear, accessories, mods etc then you can realize what a great baragain it actually is!

And for those thinking it, I have never once made the Gov't $100,000 list, I am a single income earner with one son and a stay at home wife.

Irv your way off side ! GET WTH THE PROGRAM!!! The average rider compliant and non compliant (who I may add makes up the majority of the rider base)is not going to come back with the inflated permit prices snow or not .How long do you figure the rich and famous are going to put up with this nonsense . Look at the figures the current system and pricing is not working , OFSC is losing more and more riders every year and its not just the lack of snow . How high does it have to go before you say enough?By the way I buy faithfully but I'm listening to the ones who are average riders who hae had enough and like I said they are compliant and non compliant theses are the ones that make up te sport not the handfull that show up at the AGM. I happen to know for a fact that our club has two voting deligates and before the convention there is no disscussion at our club meeting of what the proposed motions are so therefore its only thoses two degigates opinions being herd .What district are you with and are you going to be at the snowmobile show representing your club . I'd love to meet you

I understand the OFSC is losing money every year and I also understand snowmobiling numbers have declined every year as well. Is that all to do with the price of Permits and nothing else?

No, and you know it. Imo, it is due to a variety of reasons like the lack of snow, the economy, the price of sleds etc, but the lack of snow being the main one, and if that is viewed as being off side, then I guess I am.

People are peed off that they spend a pile of money every year and are only able to get out a few times due to the lack of snow, those are the ones packing it in imo.

Like I have said before, work definitely needs to be done but blaming the OFSC for riders getting out of the sport is right off side imo.
People think of nothing buying a $10,000-$15,000 snowmobile, a $2000 to $5000 trailer but complain about the the price of a permit? That to me is off side big time!

Look back when all this started, it was when the economy started to go in the crapper, we had some real crappy winters, and the price of everything was going through the roof, all the while permit prices weren't even keeping up with the price of inflation!

I don't understand your second bold, are you saying your club delegates don't tell you/share info with you? Why not, is anybody bringing that to their attention and asking why? Seems a little secretive and definitely not transparent to me and makes one wonder if they can be trusted to reprepesent the concerns/issues of it's members?

I ride and purchase my permits in district 3 but I am not not associated with the club other than that. I am not on any board, panels, exec etc, nothing other than solely being a permit buyer.
I also will not be attending the show due to family commitments so sorry, maybe we'll meet on the trail sometime?