to ontario riders

[thunderbolt]

I don't like dealing with the government either , however we don't have much of a choice unless the govenment lets the OFSC control validation tags aswell as permits , and we all know thats not going to happen. all things being said a lower cost to the rider is the only solution to bringing back past riders and that can be done by combining all cost in one price (val.tag, and trail permit) looking into doing insurance on your val. tag aswell is another thought , then all things are covered permit, val.tag , insurance all in one price , hey who doesn't like one stop shopping. One thing is clear from what we can read in this post is riders are fed up with the high cost of doing buisness and I'm sure this topic is getting the same result on other snowmobile forums

 

[SledFreak]

How does it take 2 years for an increase in permits come to fruitition?

Well who doesn't want them? We all do... I said, people would still ride if they were not groomed. And quite frankly, the trails in my area are junk 50% of the time...

The government can change laws easily. They do it everyday...

Even if they charged 50 bucks for the permit and 10 of that went to the government. My point is get a price point and run with it... Its revenue in there pocket...

Like It was said... If they are talking about it here, its been talked about on other forms... People have had it with the increased prices. As far as I am concerned, when it passed a 100.00 bucks it was to much then...

I still bet that most of the OFSC money goes to the BS adminstrative costs and the rest is used up for actual grooming... There is no way they used up much of the funding especially when the no snow has sucked for the last 3 seasons...

Instead, they raise it again... Makes no sense to me at all....

 

[Sasquatch]

Permit price in Manitoba is just over a hundred bucks or half the price of Ontario. Saskatchewan is less and I believe it is part of thier registration for plates. Manitoba and Saskatchewan have a agreement that each can ride the others trails. When I buy my Manitoba permit I feel it has a far greater value then the Ontario permit.

Last thing I want is to go back to the old way with no groomed trails. This why I'm worried about the price of permits. Seems strange that a permit price smallest of my costs can kill a system but it is! We forget that not everyone rides a few thousand miles a year. There are a huge number that only ride a few hundred a year. They have older sleds not yet 15 years old and just have PL PD Insurance of a hundred bucks a year. That 210 dollars is the largest cost to them. Larger then the fuel they buy.

There was the fisherman who used our trails to get to different lakes and at 100 bucks or less they chipped in. The the cost continued to climb and they screamed. OFSC said fisherman don't need to pay to ride a bit of our trails to get to the lake. Course they will scream again if it goes on the registration! Maybe not to bad if its 50bucks.

I will have three sleds this winter. 630 bucks is a bit much so I will only buy one permit again this year! 420 bucks will buy me a lot of fuel. When my daughters come home at Christmas we will ride but not on the groomed trails it is just not worth it even to buy a 120 dollar pass for a couple days riding. 240 bucks to burn a couple tanks of fuel. and ride a couple hundred miles works out to a buck a mile. Sorry I don't see the value there.

I used to see the value in riding my sled a couple thousand miles on groomed Ontario trails or near 10 cents a mile but last year i rode 100 miles for 200 bucks. The year before maybe 500. At 2.40 a mile and 50 cents a mile respectivly the value wains. Now of course the diehards will chime in and say that is my own fault and of course it is.

Problem is there are less people riding, it is getting harder to find riders that want to spend the money on a pass. Many riders I rode with have given up on the whole sledding experiance thrown in the towel and said that is enough! Some still ride but without a pass on or off the trails. Should I ride with them?

OFSC is finding out just how many die hard riders they have at the expense of tourist riders and casual or family riders. Thier solution is to raise the permits price and reduce the diehard riders numbers some more.

OFSC needs to address a growing problem now. Permit on the registration of regional pass. But stop raising the trail pass. My club is borderline now!

 

[thunderbolt]

Permit price in Manitoba is just over a hundred bucks or half the price of Ontario. Saskatchewan is less and I believe it is part of thier registration for plates. Manitoba and Saskatchewan have a agreement that each can ride the others trails. When I buy my Manitoba permit I feel it has a far greater value then the Ontario permit.

Last thing I want is to go back to the old way with no groomed trails. This why I'm worried about the price of permits. Seems strange that a permit price smallest of my costs can kill a system but it is! We forget that not everyone rides a few thousand miles a year. There are a huge number that only ride a few hundred a year. They have older sleds not yet 15 years old and just have PL PD Insurance of a hundred bucks a year. That 210 dollars is the largest cost to them. Larger then the fuel they buy.

There was the fisherman who used our trails to get to different lakes and at 100 bucks or less they chipped in. The the cost continued to climb and they screamed. OFSC said fisherman don't need to pay to ride a bit of our trails to get to the lake. Course they will scream again if it goes on the registration! Maybe not to bad if its 50bucks.

I will have three sleds this winter. 630 bucks is a bit much so I will only buy one permit again this year! 420 bucks will buy me a lot of fuel. When my daughters come home at Christmas we will ride but not on the groomed trails it is just not worth it even to buy a 120 dollar pass for a couple days riding. 240 bucks to burn a couple tanks of fuel. and ride a couple hundred miles works out to a buck a mile. Sorry I don't see the value there.

I used to see the value in riding my sled a couple thousand miles on groomed Ontario trails or near 10 cents a mile but last year i rode 100 miles for 200 bucks. The year before maybe 500. At 2.40 a mile and 50 cents a mile respectivly the value wains. Now of course the diehards will chime in and say that is my own fault and of course it is.

Problem is there are less people riding, it is getting harder to find riders that want to spend the money on a pass. Many riders I rode with have given up on the whole sledding experiance thrown in the towel and said that is enough! Some still ride but without a pass on or off the trails. Should I ride with them?

OFSC is finding out just how many die hard riders they have at the expense of tourist riders and casual or family riders. Thier solution is to raise the permits price and reduce the diehard riders numbers some more.

OFSC needs to address a growing problem now. Permit on the registration of regional pass. But stop raising the trail pass. My club is borderline now!

Ok guys and gals it's clear we don't want to have are pockets picked , it's clear we need to bring back past riders and noncompliant riders aswell as attract new ones . It appears the majority agree the permit price is gone off the top and most of us feel something needs to be done . It appears most are in favor of the one stop shopping idea which should bring a lower total overall cost down to the rider due to the fact that when you register your sled you will now be obliged to get your permit because it will all be one price .So if this is what we want how do we get the message accross to the OFSC and the government, I'm sure this is disscussed on other fourms and I'm sure there is OFSC brass that reads theses forums aswell as you and I .So what seems to be the hangup or do they just want to keep pissing people off , do they want to fail?

 

[YammyRX1]

Maybe someone could condense these 7 pages of opinions into one concise letter that could be sent to OFSC (and possibly MPPs), and an online petition be set up that everyone could access and e-mail to all of their fellow sledders to sign?

 

[Irv]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

 

[thunderbolt]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

I don't think anybody critized any volunteers , I believe it's a government and OFSC issue and yes I have voiced my opinions and am trying to do something about it it however I'm only one voice and am not computer savy . I have mentioned my concerns to my district and we need more people to voice their concerns aswell otherwise nothing will get done and thoses who ride free will continue to do so and the OFSC will continue to pass the buck on to the loyal riders who are also starting to leave .

 

[SledFreak]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

IRV, who is criticizing the volunteers? No one was doing that. Some of the issues maybe local clubs, but the price of the permit is all OFSC head office. No one is saying me, me , me, either... If OFSC wants a premium price point, then all trails need to be opened and groomed 24/7... Which they are NOT... I think everyone has made there point here... Lets figure out how to get our voice heard. Since OFSC head office is in Southern Ontario where the snow is NOT! Its hard for our voices to be heard. Talking to our clubs is like talking to the wall as I know alot of people that are in the clubs.

We need a way of getting our message heard....

 

[thunderbolt]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

IRV, who is criticizing the volunteers? No one was doing that. Some of the issues maybe local clubs, but the price of the permit is all OFSC head office. No one is saying me, me , me, either... If OFSC wants a premium price point, then all trails need to be opened and groomed 24/7... Which they are NOT... I think everyone has made there point here... Lets figure out how to get our voice heard. Since OFSC head office is in Southern Ontario where the snow is NOT! Its hard for our voices to be heard. Talking to our clubs is like talking to the wall as I know alot of people that are in the clubs.

We need a way of getting our message heard....

RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hamrtyme]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

IRV, who is criticizing the volunteers? No one was doing that. Some of the issues maybe local clubs, but the price of the permit is all OFSC head office. No one is saying me, me , me, either... If OFSC wants a premium price point, then all trails need to be opened and groomed 24/7... Which they are NOT... I think everyone has made there point here... Lets figure out how to get our voice heard. Since OFSC head office is in Southern Ontario where the snow is NOT! Its hard for our voices to be heard. Talking to our clubs is like talking to the wall as I know alot of people that are in the clubs.

We need a way of getting our message heard....

RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

X2

 

[Sasquatch]

We can all B#%&* and complain but unless we get out from in front of our computers and actually take our voice to a club and voice them there then there is no use doing it here!

Simply put, if you're not happy, join a club, voice your opinion so you and/or your club executive can go to the AGM and voice it there where it is actually heard!

Like what has been said, other forums are talking about it but what most don't know is that the actual people who could actually do something about these issues don't read these forums anymore as they are sick and tired of the constant bashing, the constant Me Me Me attitude and yet some have never volunteered one minute of their time ever to a club or district.

I personally know a few at freedomsledder who get pounded down everytime they post something about the OFSC and therefore hardly ever visit the site anymore.

If you don't like something, don't criticize the volunteers, members and the OFSC, do something about it, join a club, bring your ideas forward and be heard there.

Again Irv I belong to a club! So does anyone who buys a pass. They are members! I went one step further and have and still do have a position on the club exec. I have been part of a lobby (pass on the registration) to the OFSC at the AGM. That Lobby was heard and the President of the OFSC at the time was interested. The OFSC is aware but like most large political style bodys either ignores, thereby there is no problem or offers bandaids which help a little but only slow the bleeding. The classic pass was the first step in the right direction!

The southern clubs could not see the problem and the Lobby died for a mutitude of reasons. Mostly though however lack of support! Now many years later after more and more clubs have folded and huge gaps have started to form in the OFSC's cross Ontario trail system we hear about a regional pass. But still there is resistance and lack of support from those who just say everyone is B*^*(ing and complaining.

Those at the top know there is a problem because of the B*^((ing and complaining. Thier choice to stick thier head in the sand is denial! I think everyone should raise such a stink that the OFSC can no longer avoid breathing it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And Irv people are voicing thier opinions at the club level both at the meetings and huge number by not buying a passes every year. The clubs voice their opinions at the district level and at the AGM. I guess the OFSC is now hearing about it on the internet level as well. Perfect! I love it! Yell it to the roof tops!

I love the trails and work to keep them going but the loss of trail passes sold is affecting me. As far as me me goes yep I'm worried about me and everyone else as well, of course maybe that part is not noticed! I'm only a volunteer!

 

[Sasquatch]

repost

 

[snoguzzler1]

No one has mentioned it yet but we have two problems. One is the aformentioned xxxx km's of trails province wide that are only partially opened etc AND what really upsets me is the "first ride of the year". We pay for the pass knowing there will likely only be 6-8 weeks of riding. When we finally get snow it's like the clubs are surprised and the trails dont open till 2 weeks after? What's that all about?
I know all about volunterring before anyone starts. I go to meetings and work on trails etc.. and can say our club has it's trails ready when the snow comes.

 

[thunderbolt]

By the way it is posted on the OFSC site in the stats section of registered sleds in ontario there is only 60 percent of thoes has a permit . So with the one stop shopping idea you can't tell me that the number of permits wouldn't go up , there for with such a drastic increase in permits maybe we would see the combined permit /val.tag be a very affordable amount now add group volume insurance to the mix and bang savings , savings unless there is some skimming going on. Just a thought , its been proven time and time again bulk buying equals savings , just look at the success of big box stores , banks , insurance etc... group rates and bulk buying can't hurt trying , we gotta do something

 

[SledFreak]

I hope they realize it soon, because all of those small clubs that made up OFSC are now gone. It will be hard to get them back and running, if at all.