redrx1rkt
Expert
Just returned from the shop only to discover that I have another $700+ repair bill for my Apex. This is the third year in a row of bills this high, mostly due to blown exhaust gaskets, but also I have had major suspension issues that pushed the total past $1300 last year. I cannot afford to keep doing this. I cannot afford (and do not want to deal with) another Apex, so I was thinking of a Phazer GT. Tell me what you think of this idea.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
Most gossip i hear/read is that Apexs and Vectors are bullet proof(besides doughnuts and a few small things)great sleds. Read a Phazer forum once. If you've read this one alone, you may already have your answer?
But, thanks to the guys on here, you can get them to work, and hopefully last.
But, thanks to the guys on here, you can get them to work, and hopefully last.
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
Do the words "out of the frying pan and into the fire" hold any meaning for you? Phazers are a blast but junky. It takes a lot of research, time and money to overcome Yamaha's shortcomings on this sled. It can be accomplished you end up with a quality 80 hp sled that likes to fall on its side.
In my opinion a phazer needs the following just to be acceptable:
All factory updates
Skis
Track
Suspension Bushings
Steering Bushings
Lighter Muffler
Tether cord
Then there are go-fast goodies:
Air pods
Exhaust (already mentioned but falls under 2 categories)
Clutching
Power Commander
Nitrous
Supercharger/Turbocharger
I also keep tow straps, throttle cord (for gassing/pulling at the same time), shovel and pull cord on board, especialy when I'm alone. These are not light sleds and they are not fun to extract.
Don't get me wrong though, they are awesome to ride when properly set up but if you are looking to get out of an Apex for maintenance issues, the phazer is probably not the sled for you.
In my opinion a phazer needs the following just to be acceptable:
All factory updates
Skis
Track
Suspension Bushings
Steering Bushings
Lighter Muffler
Tether cord
Then there are go-fast goodies:
Air pods
Exhaust (already mentioned but falls under 2 categories)
Clutching
Power Commander
Nitrous
Supercharger/Turbocharger
I also keep tow straps, throttle cord (for gassing/pulling at the same time), shovel and pull cord on board, especialy when I'm alone. These are not light sleds and they are not fun to extract.
Don't get me wrong though, they are awesome to ride when properly set up but if you are looking to get out of an Apex for maintenance issues, the phazer is probably not the sled for you.
I agree.Realize that you are having a shop work on your Apex.That is why it costs so much.All the new sleds are a pain to work on and take alot of time to do simple things because they are packaged so tightly.Even the 2 strokes.That means extra hrs which means a high bill.I would recommend learning to do the work yourself.Parts are inexpensive most times its the labor that is the killer.06 Apex had terrible shocks even the GT.Get the shock redone or you will keep breaking your skid.
redrx1rkt
Expert
Thanks for the info. Doesn't sound like the Phazer is a solution to my woes. I know little about them and had to ask. What has happened to Yamaha? For years, I have bought their sleds and tolerated the less than perfect ride and handling in order to get the reliability and durability. Now they don't even seem to offer those attributes. So disappointing.
I plan on learning to do the gaskets myself next spring. A guy posted a step-by-step process on the Apex thread. My shop only gets $50/hour, so that makes these repairs cheaper than a lot of other places would be, but they still need to charge 3-4 hours of labor which hits the $200 mark right off the bat. I think the best thing to do is bite the bullet AGAIN this year and find a way to fix the damn thing myself and just have to pay for parts.
I plan on learning to do the gaskets myself next spring. A guy posted a step-by-step process on the Apex thread. My shop only gets $50/hour, so that makes these repairs cheaper than a lot of other places would be, but they still need to charge 3-4 hours of labor which hits the $200 mark right off the bat. I think the best thing to do is bite the bullet AGAIN this year and find a way to fix the damn thing myself and just have to pay for parts.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
Maybe try it this year? If all else fails, swallow some pride and bring it to the dealer?(in a box, lol)
Cannondale, the "compact engine compartment," you're right, that's why i wouldn't bother with an XP besides their four stroke or the fan. Like redrx1 here posts, i either need to get back to basics so i can do it all myself, or get something that i won't have to touch, besides the obvious wear parts.
Cannondale, the "compact engine compartment," you're right, that's why i wouldn't bother with an XP besides their four stroke or the fan. Like redrx1 here posts, i either need to get back to basics so i can do it all myself, or get something that i won't have to touch, besides the obvious wear parts.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
Have you thought about an aftermarket header? Keep an eye on Hindle they are releasing a system for the Apex and surely would have adressed exhaust dougnut issues. I heard that Nytro guys had similar problems and the Excell header fixed it.
Somebody chime in if I am way off base,
Somebody chime in if I am way off base,
driftrider
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2009
- Messages
- 35
yah if your not good a fixing it yourself the phazer probably isnt the sled for you. Love the sled but it has its qerks to say the least, I doubt that you will find any sled that dosnt require $700 or so per season to keep it going.... sledding isnt cheap haha 
This is going to really make some mad.Dealers dont volunteer info on pain in the butt jobs.You have to ask.For example if I had leaking doughnuts on a apex I would consider riding it till the stupid clamps wore through the header flanges.Why?Because at that point if you ask Yamaha will replace your entire headpipe with a stainless one and replace the doughnuts.FREE.Dont do this on a Phazer since its a fire risk and our headers are stainless already.Yamaha has been fixing issues like this forever and out of warantee even.Apex chain cases ring a bell also.I am not sure what year the Anniversary sleds were but that year onward they made huge strides in the rear suspension with Ohlins at least.Guys most people think when they break their sled its thier fault.Dealers are busy as heck during the season and guess what.Thats when they break.So customers do anything to get back on trails even if it means kissing butts.Thing is the only thing they are guilty of is riding in a large amount of cases!You need to speak up and demand satisfaction or nothing will ever change.
redrx1rkt
Expert
I already have the stainless pipe and the gaskets STILL blow out. I was told the stainless pipe would solve this problem...yeah, well, guess not. I think I get what you are saying, though, but your idea will only work once and then you will be replacing the gaskets on your own thereafter. After the second year of ownership, in 2007, the clamps destroyed the titanium pipe after the gaskets blew. After writing a letter, Yamaha replaced the titanium pipe with another, saving me $317. A couple of years later, the titanium pipe got destroyed again and I had it replaced with the stainless pipe which was now being offered by Yamaha as a replacement part for the Apex.
I bought the extended warranty on my RX-1 and never used it in 7000 miles. Based on that experience and the fact that I spent $0 in repairs on my first sled after 5000 miles, I did not go for the extended warranty on the Apex. Oops. That won't happen again.
I hear the Ex-Up Apex exhaust is all one piece and costs $2200 to replace. I hope anyone who buys one gets the extended warranty.
I bought the extended warranty on my RX-1 and never used it in 7000 miles. Based on that experience and the fact that I spent $0 in repairs on my first sled after 5000 miles, I did not go for the extended warranty on the Apex. Oops. That won't happen again.
I hear the Ex-Up Apex exhaust is all one piece and costs $2200 to replace. I hope anyone who buys one gets the extended warranty.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
That Ex-Up exhaust deal is the first thing they tell you to disconnect on the duelsport WRs. Must work great, lol. I'm not entirely sure exactly what that dissconnect is about, so i wouldn't take this to the bank. I'd have to look in Thumpertalk for early posts on "Must do"s.
You need to modify the clamps.I have seen just as many RX1's with dougnuts out as Apex.Not much different in header.
redrx1rkt
Expert
Well, bottom line is that I am not letting my dealer do this job again unless I absolutely cannot do it myself with friends' help. They just do it by the book and avoid, for example, modifying clamps.
They have treated me well over the years...but...am wondering if I am helping to make up losses in sled and other sales since the economic downturn.
They have treated me well over the years...but...am wondering if I am helping to make up losses in sled and other sales since the economic downturn.
phaze5
TY 4 Stroke Guru
you gotta learn dude or go back to older technology, i am thinking of regetting a 98 xc and making it cherry for sentimental reasons and theyre easy to work on hahaha
Its not that.Dont take it personally.They make $ on everything they do.It would be a disservice to themselves and you if it werent so since if $ isnt made they go out of business and that doesnt do anyone any good including you.The problem is they make more $ easier by doing simple things such as setting up a Snowblower for sale or selling and installing Skiis.You cant make them into villains for trying to make $.Now if they are greedy yes but man if you ever saw the inventory $ and $ on the line in units sitting there I dont know how they sleep at night.I would be scared out of my mind with the debt.Think about it.All it takes is a swing in gas prices and people turn to shovels and toboggans overnight.Its kind of like Football players.Are they overpaid?Sure but all it takes is one injury and they are selling cars for a living.That risk is what makes the big $ justifiable and well deserved.
