Another Phase
Extreme
Hi Folks
I am looking at replacing my wifes sled and would appreciate your feedback. She rides an 02 Viper and loves how it handles. She has tried my Attak and does not like the rider forward position, so I think a Vector or Rage would be good for her.
I am interested in your thoughts regarding how they compare to the Viper for handling and performance, the difference between the 121 and 136 and rear suspension comparison between the torsion spring and the mono.
There seems to be some good deals available for low mileage 05's and 06's, and some dealers have new leftover models with full warranty.
I am throwing this out to the experts. Your responses will help with our buying decision.
I am looking at replacing my wifes sled and would appreciate your feedback. She rides an 02 Viper and loves how it handles. She has tried my Attak and does not like the rider forward position, so I think a Vector or Rage would be good for her.
I am interested in your thoughts regarding how they compare to the Viper for handling and performance, the difference between the 121 and 136 and rear suspension comparison between the torsion spring and the mono.
There seems to be some good deals available for low mileage 05's and 06's, and some dealers have new leftover models with full warranty.
I am throwing this out to the experts. Your responses will help with our buying decision.
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
How does she ride? That is, does she do off trail riding, bagger trips, cruises down the trails, high speed lake runs, etc?
Both sleds are very nice but it is better to match a sled to how the rider uses the sled. Maybe neither is right and she would be better off with a Phazer, but I would rather first here what she does with her current sled.
Both sleds are very nice but it is better to match a sled to how the rider uses the sled. Maybe neither is right and she would be better off with a Phazer, but I would rather first here what she does with her current sled.
Another Phase
Extreme
She rides fairly aggressively and has no trouble keeping up with the guys. Mostly trail rides and saddlebag tours. Quick lake runs are always in the cards as well.
I started out showing her the Phazer, but she is not stuck on the looks and she thinks the seat is too narrow and too hard. I would also be concerned about top end performance.
I like the Phazer myself and think if she rode it she may have a different opinion.
I started out showing her the Phazer, but she is not stuck on the looks and she thinks the seat is too narrow and too hard. I would also be concerned about top end performance.
I like the Phazer myself and think if she rode it she may have a different opinion.
Steely Dan
Extreme
My wife and I both have Rage's and personally I think they excel at trail riding. The longer track offers a smoother ride over the stutter bumps and not much given up on top end. Also it looks like the hybrids are getting a little higher price used. I just bought an Attak so we will see how she likes the rider forward position.
I bought a new holdover '05 Rage last year. I put about 1000 miles on it last year and really like it. I think it is a very good all purpose sled. As was said with the 136" track it is a little more stable through the stutters, and with more track on the ground you have a little more control and stability on the trail. It feels much more stable and rails around the corners instead of sliding through the corners. I really love the 136" track and I don't think I would ever get a 121" if I were to have just one sled. But since I don't have just one sled I still have some 121's in the stable for other types of fun. 
I think she would really like either sled.
I think she would really like either sled.
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
Sounds like the Rage to me. The longer track will provide greater stability and bridge the bumps better. The 120hp engine provides surprisingly good top end speed.Another Phase said:
You mentioned she rode your Attak. Was she OK with handling this sled? Some women prefer a lighter handling sled from a steering perspective. You might have to make some adjustments to make the steering easier and more like her old Viper. Steering wise, the Phazer will be much closer to the Viper. I know what she means by the looks as I was not that impressed at first, but now I really like this new look from Yamaha.
Another Phase
Extreme
I would like to see her on a Rage myself as I think the 136 is a better ride. They are not as common as the Vector around here, but I have seen a few. If I remember correctly, didn't the 05 Rage come with the pro-action rear? I believe in 06 they went to the mono.
yamaha 1, which rear suspension does yours have. Does it steer heavy?
Swiss Sledder, you are correct, she does like a lighter steering sled. My attak is much improved over my old RX1. It was a wrestling match to pilot that one for a long day on the trails. If the Vector/Rage steers heavy like the RX1 she would hate it.
Do you think the different rear skid would have an effect on steering effort. I have my attak set up with more transfer which lightens up the front end when your on the gas. Maybe this helps because it does not steer heavy in my opinion.
yamaha 1, which rear suspension does yours have. Does it steer heavy?
Swiss Sledder, you are correct, she does like a lighter steering sled. My attak is much improved over my old RX1. It was a wrestling match to pilot that one for a long day on the trails. If the Vector/Rage steers heavy like the RX1 she would hate it.
Do you think the different rear skid would have an effect on steering effort. I have my attak set up with more transfer which lightens up the front end when your on the gas. Maybe this helps because it does not steer heavy in my opinion.
AP-
Yes, my '05 has the ProAction rear suspension. Which I know a lot of people don't care for. You are also correct in that the '06 came with the monoshock rear suspension. As I said I got mine as a new holdover and got a really good deal on it, so it was hard to pass it up for more money for the '06.......even with the monoshock.
As far as how heavy it steers, I don't know that I can answer that. I have not ridden an '06 Rage or an Attack/Apex. I personally don't think that it has a real heavy steering effort. The only time I noticed it a little was last year when I was on a ride with my cousin who has a '01 SXr500. Compared to that sled it does take a little more steering effort, but that really isn't a good comparision.
I don't mind the pro-action myself, that said I am thinking about finding a 136" monoshock skid to put into my '05. Not really because I don't like the pro-action. I just think the mono is a good suspension. I put fox floats on it last weekend, wasn't going to but I got a really good deal on them. So we will see how it handles with those on there.
Any other questions let me know!
Yes, my '05 has the ProAction rear suspension. Which I know a lot of people don't care for. You are also correct in that the '06 came with the monoshock rear suspension. As I said I got mine as a new holdover and got a really good deal on it, so it was hard to pass it up for more money for the '06.......even with the monoshock.
As far as how heavy it steers, I don't know that I can answer that. I have not ridden an '06 Rage or an Attack/Apex. I personally don't think that it has a real heavy steering effort. The only time I noticed it a little was last year when I was on a ride with my cousin who has a '01 SXr500. Compared to that sled it does take a little more steering effort, but that really isn't a good comparision.
I don't mind the pro-action myself, that said I am thinking about finding a 136" monoshock skid to put into my '05. Not really because I don't like the pro-action. I just think the mono is a good suspension. I put fox floats on it last weekend, wasn't going to but I got a really good deal on them. So we will see how it handles with those on there.
Any other questions let me know!
Another Phase
Extreme
Thanks Y1,
I love the mono in the attak and would like to have it on the Rage as well. Price will likely be the deciding factor.
Have any of you experienced inside ski lift which you would consider a problem? I think the front springs were changed from progressive to straight rate for 06. I assume this was to correct a ski lift issue similar to the RX1.
I love the mono in the attak and would like to have it on the Rage as well. Price will likely be the deciding factor.
Have any of you experienced inside ski lift which you would consider a problem? I think the front springs were changed from progressive to straight rate for 06. I assume this was to correct a ski lift issue similar to the RX1.
I guess I haven't noticed too much inside ski lift.....or at least not more than I thought it should have. I went to the Rage coming off a '92 Exciter II 570, which doesn't have the power to have inside ski lift. Once I got used to the different riding style I was fine.
We will see this year how it reacts having the fox floats on it! I really don't worry about things of this nature though, as you can adjust the suspension to get the handleing to the point you like personally.
My only sugession is that if you get an '05 is to make sure that all of the updates have been done on it. Which include the cdi box, jackshaft bearing and clutch rattle. Other than these three issues (which my dealer updated before I even bought it) I haven't had anything done to it.
Has been a great sled so far..........can't wait for snow to ride it some more!
We will see this year how it reacts having the fox floats on it! I really don't worry about things of this nature though, as you can adjust the suspension to get the handleing to the point you like personally.
My only sugession is that if you get an '05 is to make sure that all of the updates have been done on it. Which include the cdi box, jackshaft bearing and clutch rattle. Other than these three issues (which my dealer updated before I even bought it) I haven't had anything done to it.
Has been a great sled so far..........can't wait for snow to ride it some more!
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
I found the steering on my Attak to be very easy after I shimmed the stock skis. So if you get a Rage, I would shim the skis for her. I personally found that 6 inches of carbide was not too much for an un-studded 136" track.Another Phase said:
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
We too are looking for a replacement sled for my wife. Maybe some of this will help your selection. She currently rides a 1998 Venture 700 and likes it a fair bit, but finds the ride rough with one rider and she absolutely hates the 2-stroke smoke/smell. It has the 136" pro-action suspension but I suspect it is calibrated much firmer than the rage (the ride is great with both of us on it).
I don't know if you're wives are like mine, but what I consider to be light steering and what she considers still too heavy don't line up (my "light steering" is often still "too heavy" for her).
On the Venture I have the front track shock spring cranked up and the ski springs cranked down a little to lighten up the steering. Also 4" carbides are installed to further lighten up the steering effort. She still find the steering too heavy if we're on tight, twisty trails for a long time.
One thing I don't like about the monoshock suspension is you can't adjust the cruising ski pressure. If the steering is too heavy there are limited options to lighten it up.
With the pro-active or pro-action (or any conventional suspension) you can crank up the front track spring preload and lighten up the ski spring preload which significantly lightens up the cruising ski pressure (at the same time it helps to slightly reduce the weight transfer and tighten the front limiter straps to compensate for the reduced cornering stability).
I think an ideal sled for someone who wants a 4-stroke with light steering would be a Vector ER with the pro-active suspension. 4-inch carbides and some simple suspension adjustments and you're set.
One option we're thinking about is to replace/repair the engine in my 05 RX-1 and give it to her. She really liked the smooth ride, power and lack of 2-stroke smell - but found the steering too heavy with the way I had it set up (10" carbides + limiter tightened right up). My biggest concern is I'm not sure that I can get the steering light enough without a front track shock/spring for her. The RX-1 does have less cruising ski pressure than the Apex/Attak, but not by much.
On the 136" vs 121" I have found you can lighten up the steering more on a 121" (if the rear skid has a front shock) and still not get too much under steer. Adding a few studs makes the tracking closer to the stability of a 136" and also provides much better safety on icy trails.
I don't know if you're wives are like mine, but what I consider to be light steering and what she considers still too heavy don't line up (my "light steering" is often still "too heavy" for her).
On the Venture I have the front track shock spring cranked up and the ski springs cranked down a little to lighten up the steering. Also 4" carbides are installed to further lighten up the steering effort. She still find the steering too heavy if we're on tight, twisty trails for a long time.
One thing I don't like about the monoshock suspension is you can't adjust the cruising ski pressure. If the steering is too heavy there are limited options to lighten it up.
With the pro-active or pro-action (or any conventional suspension) you can crank up the front track spring preload and lighten up the ski spring preload which significantly lightens up the cruising ski pressure (at the same time it helps to slightly reduce the weight transfer and tighten the front limiter straps to compensate for the reduced cornering stability).
I think an ideal sled for someone who wants a 4-stroke with light steering would be a Vector ER with the pro-active suspension. 4-inch carbides and some simple suspension adjustments and you're set.
One option we're thinking about is to replace/repair the engine in my 05 RX-1 and give it to her. She really liked the smooth ride, power and lack of 2-stroke smell - but found the steering too heavy with the way I had it set up (10" carbides + limiter tightened right up). My biggest concern is I'm not sure that I can get the steering light enough without a front track shock/spring for her. The RX-1 does have less cruising ski pressure than the Apex/Attak, but not by much.
On the 136" vs 121" I have found you can lighten up the steering more on a 121" (if the rear skid has a front shock) and still not get too much under steer. Adding a few studs makes the tracking closer to the stability of a 136" and also provides much better safety on icy trails.
Another Phase
Extreme
O.K, first of all, thanks very much for all the replies. this really answers alot of my questions, but also creates a few new ones.
Y1, I understand about the clutch rattle because my RX1 did the same thing. What is the issue with the jackshaft bearing and cdi? Are these warranty items?
SS, I have the skis shimmed on my attak and also on her Viper and it does make a difference. That would be the first thing I would do to whichever sled we buy.
ReX, It sound like you are in the same position we were in a few years ago. My wife rode a '99 Venture 600 triple and really disliked it's handling quirks. The setups you mentioned are exactly what I did with hers, but could never get it to stop darting. It also pushed like crazy in the corners without enough ski pressure. Add more pressure, it darted worse. Solution - For Sale.
She was in heaven on the Viper, with it's slot car like handling, but it does lack good rear suspension. Hence our dilema. She doesn't want to go backwards in the handling department in order to gain rear suspension compliance.
I have found an 05 Vector ER (pro-active torsion spring rear), and an 05 Rage (old style pro action coil over spring rear). Which would you go with.
By the way ReX, what's going on with your Sens this season?
Y1, I understand about the clutch rattle because my RX1 did the same thing. What is the issue with the jackshaft bearing and cdi? Are these warranty items?
SS, I have the skis shimmed on my attak and also on her Viper and it does make a difference. That would be the first thing I would do to whichever sled we buy.
ReX, It sound like you are in the same position we were in a few years ago. My wife rode a '99 Venture 600 triple and really disliked it's handling quirks. The setups you mentioned are exactly what I did with hers, but could never get it to stop darting. It also pushed like crazy in the corners without enough ski pressure. Add more pressure, it darted worse. Solution - For Sale.
She was in heaven on the Viper, with it's slot car like handling, but it does lack good rear suspension. Hence our dilema. She doesn't want to go backwards in the handling department in order to gain rear suspension compliance.
I have found an 05 Vector ER (pro-active torsion spring rear), and an 05 Rage (old style pro action coil over spring rear). Which would you go with.
By the way ReX, what's going on with your Sens this season?
AP-
The CDI box was an update that they came out with because they were having some problems with the TORS. It would kick in under situations that it shouldn't. I don't know all of the specifics but the new CDI box was the solution.
The jackshaft bearing was kind of an ongoing design issue. They started out with a bearing that had a set screw holding it in place. Well with the higher torque application than the two strokes they were snaping jackshafts. This was due to the high stress concentrations that were applied at the point where the set screws sat on the shaft. Then it was changed to a type of tapered press bearing but again due to torque they were slipping shafts in the bearing. Now it is a threaded tapper lock bearing.
Long story short those two along with the clutch rattle (which really isn't a problem just a nusance) are the three updates for the '05 RS machines. Just somthings to look for ahead of time.
Again, I don't know all of the specifics of the above information. Just passing along the information that was told to me when I bought mine. There could be some other underlying design intents or problems that caused the updates as well.
Y1
The CDI box was an update that they came out with because they were having some problems with the TORS. It would kick in under situations that it shouldn't. I don't know all of the specifics but the new CDI box was the solution.
The jackshaft bearing was kind of an ongoing design issue. They started out with a bearing that had a set screw holding it in place. Well with the higher torque application than the two strokes they were snaping jackshafts. This was due to the high stress concentrations that were applied at the point where the set screws sat on the shaft. Then it was changed to a type of tapered press bearing but again due to torque they were slipping shafts in the bearing. Now it is a threaded tapper lock bearing.
Long story short those two along with the clutch rattle (which really isn't a problem just a nusance) are the three updates for the '05 RS machines. Just somthings to look for ahead of time.
Again, I don't know all of the specifics of the above information. Just passing along the information that was told to me when I bought mine. There could be some other underlying design intents or problems that caused the updates as well.
Y1
RSVECTORFREAK
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Another Phase said:
If she like the way the viper handled I would tend to think the Vector would be a better sled for her because the 121" does out handle a rage on the twisties hands down and the Pro Active suspension, in my opinion, is better than the old pro action for sure. It doesn't sound like she'll be doing alot of off roading, where the 136" shines but they are a little nicer at spanning the moguls than the 121". I would have to think a 121" Vector is closer of a match than a 136".
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