Port-Parts
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2018 Sidewinder BTX SE
Taz 107 - As far as where to mount the switch when running the accessory insert style heaters I have seen the switches mounted to the plastic dash area, under side panels, and personally had mine feed through the metal bracket in the center of the bars that holds all the wiring together then taped to the harness to hold it steadily in place (this was super easy to reach and change positions while riding).
Also when using the accessory insert style heaters I highly recommend picking up a suitable relay, a fusible link or fused harness, and some electrical connectors that allow you to connect and unconnect the wiring as if you install the wiring properly you will need to disconnect some of it at times when servicing the sled (oil changes/spark plugs/etc.) These are available from most any auto parts store or radio shack. Given enough time and feedback this may be something that could be put together in a kit form. This was something I looked at over the offseason but the complexity of installing these into the bars and then when word of the bar update hit the streets I figured this situation would be put to rest. As far as getting a power source with the key on we have used the 12 volt accessory outlet wiring to provide power to a relay to energize the system. I would not wire this directly to that power source however as I believe it will blow the fuse as that circuit is wired for 3 amps - thus the need for the relay set-up.
One last thing if anyone has questions on anything to do with handwarmers or these inserts kits at this point please pm me or post to this thread as the amount of calls regarding this lately have been overwhelming and can affect our ability to service our local and internet based customers daily needs. If these questions were more clear cut it would be much easier to handle but at this point until there is some final definite fixes it would be much easier this way. Thanks
Also when using the accessory insert style heaters I highly recommend picking up a suitable relay, a fusible link or fused harness, and some electrical connectors that allow you to connect and unconnect the wiring as if you install the wiring properly you will need to disconnect some of it at times when servicing the sled (oil changes/spark plugs/etc.) These are available from most any auto parts store or radio shack. Given enough time and feedback this may be something that could be put together in a kit form. This was something I looked at over the offseason but the complexity of installing these into the bars and then when word of the bar update hit the streets I figured this situation would be put to rest. As far as getting a power source with the key on we have used the 12 volt accessory outlet wiring to provide power to a relay to energize the system. I would not wire this directly to that power source however as I believe it will blow the fuse as that circuit is wired for 3 amps - thus the need for the relay set-up.
One last thing if anyone has questions on anything to do with handwarmers or these inserts kits at this point please pm me or post to this thread as the amount of calls regarding this lately have been overwhelming and can affect our ability to service our local and internet based customers daily needs. If these questions were more clear cut it would be much easier to handle but at this point until there is some final definite fixes it would be much easier this way. Thanks
mjp2003apex
Newbie
1st time posting, i have an '07 apex.
put the '06 bars on. good to go!!!!!
thanks machzed!!!! works like a charm.
i have been watching this thread for a week now. thought i would give my 2 cents.
i have a bachelors degree in electronic engineering, and i didnt think twice about doing the mod.
no matter what you do, add a resistor, add additional element, change the grips, etc. it will put more stress on the system.
the main difference between the o6 to 07 is the way they wired them and the resistance of the grip. 06- series and less resistance, 07- parallel. they thought by going to parallel all would be good but when they change the grip resistance they defeated what they had fixed.
the easiest way, is to wire the 06 bars with the 07 hareness(parallel) and call it a done deal!!
the only damage that could happen is if you leave it adjusted to high. if you do that long enough then maybe damage to the system. but i trully think you would have burnt hands first, so even the dummy would turn them down.
you cant change anything or do anything else, you will draw more current if you do. if you add a resistor (or additional heat element)to that set up you will still be drawing more current, even straight from the battery. which is not what we want. the stator is rated for a certain output, if you dont exceed it, all is good.
like machzed has said, no dimming of lights or anything. i havent seen anything either. so i do not believe we are over loading anything.
remember your car with that big stereo, when the base would hit, the lights would dim. too much draw. that doesnt seem to be the case with the 06 bars wired in parallel.
i do not believe that it will damage the "cpu". if the "cpu" you guys are refeering to is the bar display, that is rated for a certain voltage, which we are not exceeding. if you think its drawing too much current, trust me you will know, the wire would melt. did you see how thin they are! if you are that worried, put an inline fuse on it before you plug them into the harness. that is the simpliest peace of mind.
the sled produces a voltage (12v not running, probably 14v running), could be 6v. haven't checked with my meter yet. dont believe i need to. i dont think that the engineers are going to get that deep in to building the machines, as far as electricity is concerned. they are not going to make some grip circuit go threw some "cpu" it doesnt make sense, in the electroincs world. the circuit is pretty simple. you have the grips (resistance) the switch (resistance) and power suppling it, that is all. after the "stator " (alternator) produces the voltage, whatever needs it takes it( grips , lights, etc). think of your car again , you try and take too much then problems, time to replace the stator (alternator). which i cant see happening, your hands would have 3rd degree burns before that. there has to be a fuse for them in the fuse panel which would blow anyways!!
not that im anybody special, but i think its getting too deep. from what i have read you all sound like you have common sense and should be able deal with the new set up, better then frost bite.
bottom line whatever you do you will change the amount of current draw.
so i think the "kiss" method is what to go with ( Keep It Simple Stupid).
i hear what some are saying, yes it would be nice to be able to use the adjuster to its fullest, but that is not going to happen without a lot of mods and increasing the load again. like i said if you add a resistor, or additional heat elements you will draw more current.
just wanted to say thanks for the fix , try and ease some minds and clear some things up.
i love the heat!!!!!
put the '06 bars on. good to go!!!!!
thanks machzed!!!! works like a charm.
i have been watching this thread for a week now. thought i would give my 2 cents.
i have a bachelors degree in electronic engineering, and i didnt think twice about doing the mod.
no matter what you do, add a resistor, add additional element, change the grips, etc. it will put more stress on the system.
the main difference between the o6 to 07 is the way they wired them and the resistance of the grip. 06- series and less resistance, 07- parallel. they thought by going to parallel all would be good but when they change the grip resistance they defeated what they had fixed.
the easiest way, is to wire the 06 bars with the 07 hareness(parallel) and call it a done deal!!
the only damage that could happen is if you leave it adjusted to high. if you do that long enough then maybe damage to the system. but i trully think you would have burnt hands first, so even the dummy would turn them down.
you cant change anything or do anything else, you will draw more current if you do. if you add a resistor (or additional heat element)to that set up you will still be drawing more current, even straight from the battery. which is not what we want. the stator is rated for a certain output, if you dont exceed it, all is good.
like machzed has said, no dimming of lights or anything. i havent seen anything either. so i do not believe we are over loading anything.
remember your car with that big stereo, when the base would hit, the lights would dim. too much draw. that doesnt seem to be the case with the 06 bars wired in parallel.
i do not believe that it will damage the "cpu". if the "cpu" you guys are refeering to is the bar display, that is rated for a certain voltage, which we are not exceeding. if you think its drawing too much current, trust me you will know, the wire would melt. did you see how thin they are! if you are that worried, put an inline fuse on it before you plug them into the harness. that is the simpliest peace of mind.
the sled produces a voltage (12v not running, probably 14v running), could be 6v. haven't checked with my meter yet. dont believe i need to. i dont think that the engineers are going to get that deep in to building the machines, as far as electricity is concerned. they are not going to make some grip circuit go threw some "cpu" it doesnt make sense, in the electroincs world. the circuit is pretty simple. you have the grips (resistance) the switch (resistance) and power suppling it, that is all. after the "stator " (alternator) produces the voltage, whatever needs it takes it( grips , lights, etc). think of your car again , you try and take too much then problems, time to replace the stator (alternator). which i cant see happening, your hands would have 3rd degree burns before that. there has to be a fuse for them in the fuse panel which would blow anyways!!
not that im anybody special, but i think its getting too deep. from what i have read you all sound like you have common sense and should be able deal with the new set up, better then frost bite.
bottom line whatever you do you will change the amount of current draw.
so i think the "kiss" method is what to go with ( Keep It Simple Stupid).
i hear what some are saying, yes it would be nice to be able to use the adjuster to its fullest, but that is not going to happen without a lot of mods and increasing the load again. like i said if you add a resistor, or additional heat elements you will draw more current.
just wanted to say thanks for the fix , try and ease some minds and clear some things up.
i love the heat!!!!!
Port-Parts
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2018 Sidewinder BTX SE
mjp2003apex - I understand your take on this with the engineering background and appreciate all levels of input but before you put your own stamp of approval on this you really need to understand how this system really works and by your comments on whether or not this is a 12volt system or the lack of knowing what the cpu (really called a ECU) is shows you don't fully understand how this system works. The ECU is the engine control unit which controls all major wiring functions on the snowmobile including the lighting, ignition, fuel injection, handwarmers, etc. The way the stock handwarmers work is that when you run them up or down on your digital display a signal is sent to the ECU that then varies the voltage output to the grips to regulate the heat. It is the ECU that regulates the voltage (not the guage or anything else) getting to the grips. The concern is that sending double or triple the amperage through the ECU may damage it over time as it is overworking/overheating compared to the factory design. If it fails it most likely will cause the snowmobile to stop functioning as it could also lose ignition and fuel injection functions. This could leave someone stranded - I personally would rather have cold hands than walk home!
The accessory heater element kits I have referred to in previous posts are not in any way tied into the factory wiring but wired directly to the battery for power thus they will not directly interfere with the ECU or anything it controls.
The accessory heater element kits I have referred to in previous posts are not in any way tied into the factory wiring but wired directly to the battery for power thus they will not directly interfere with the ECU or anything it controls.
87gtNOS
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mjp2003apex said:
alright, this got me confused...so adding the rheostat is gonna cause the same load? Or block the load from the grips?
SledFreak
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Port-Parts said:
Kevin, what is Yamaha's take on this then..... Do they think that there is anything wrong? If they say no, then invite them for a ride and show them that they suck and should have never been released. They are a joke and they need to be addressed.
More dealers need to start hounding them about this prolonged issue, if they don't want a ton of warranty claims because customers have taken matters into their own hands because Yamaha is not delivering the product they promised.
WTF...now you guys chime in...I waited for what a couple of weeks to switch it around and now that I'm done you post...
this whole handlebar issue is B S and Yamaha needs to do something quick...
this whole handlebar issue is B S and Yamaha needs to do something quick...
sj said:
Its not Kevins job to protect you from messing up your sled, plus he's not saying anything that hasn't allready been said.
1)there's a big difference between someone tweaker/tuner and a dealers opinion when it comes to fixing this handwarmer problem..
2) he represents a dealer that markets on this site and I never said it was his job to protect us but my point ishis post..
I think he said "After following this post for awhile and being urged by others I figured I would add my .02 cents on this subject"
2) he represents a dealer that markets on this site and I never said it was his job to protect us but my point ishis post..
I think he said "After following this post for awhile and being urged by others I figured I would add my .02 cents on this subject"
Did you call YOUR dealer?
actionjack
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Clearly the ECU regulates the voltage to the grips. A fused link is the safest way to proceed with this. If by chance the amps get too high, wires at the very least, are gonna melt. Hopefully not, but the consequences for somebody may be a lot more than that in terms of damage. On the other hand, my 97 SX needs $500 in repairs and used parts to make sure it still has brakes. You gotta pay to play, I just wouldn't want to have to buy a new ECU or have my sled burn to the ground.
The fact that this thread is so long with so many views seems to me to justify to Yamaha to take a better look at this issue. We post about so many things that need diagonsing and troubleshooting and from now on when guys have electrical issues we'll need to know what unsanctioned electrical mods they've made which MAY be overtaxing the charging system. For now I'm sticking with my updated bars and we'll have gauntlets or mittens at the ready for any REALLY cold weather.
The fact that this thread is so long with so many views seems to me to justify to Yamaha to take a better look at this issue. We post about so many things that need diagonsing and troubleshooting and from now on when guys have electrical issues we'll need to know what unsanctioned electrical mods they've made which MAY be overtaxing the charging system. For now I'm sticking with my updated bars and we'll have gauntlets or mittens at the ready for any REALLY cold weather.
ejcamaro said:
no...I called three dealers and most didnt know crap...I'll admit Kevin is more in the "know" and that was my point about jumping in later compared to sooner...it appeared that the worst that could happen would be some melted grips...now the consequences have grown substantially.
the way Yamaha has handled this from start to finish is very poor and they should make a jumper harness with a proper resistor or capacitor and make thousands of unhappy owners of their highest end snow products happy!
Actionjack...I agree with you...
and I will be re installing the 07 bars to the 07 harness
and I will be re installing the 07 bars to the 07 harness
Is Ian ready for overtime?
Snake, is Ian okay with you posting his #?
Is Ian ready for some overtime? Would imagine the phone line will be busy for quite some time.
If it helps us out, I'd like to call and politely voice my concerns too.
snakes said:
Snake, is Ian okay with you posting his #?
Is Ian ready for some overtime? Would imagine the phone line will be busy for quite some time.
If it helps us out, I'd like to call and politely voice my concerns too.
ROCKERDAN
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Morning gang....
this is like a daily ritual now eh?..coming into the handwarmer thread to see what the latest news is....
I know Im not the most POPULAR guy here according to TY ,but is there a chance we could get a poll on WHO did this MOD and how many issues we are seeing with the MOD?
I think this would be a great service to ALL on TY....Ive been the guinie pig for near 3 weeks now,and I know of upwards of 20 others who are running this setup as well....it would be great to see a POLL as to how its working in the field.
also,I truly believe the Bulletin is more or less Yamaha Canada trying to cover their butts once again...last season we saw them say there is no problem and now they are telling us we are SOL with the so called 07 update fix...what are we to do?
kevin,your ideas are fantastic....however I feel MODDING the sled in those ways(adding more aftermarket,cartridges,elements,switches ect) makes the sleds very "cheesy" for lack of a better word.LOL.
I dont want to have extra switches hanging around,and extra wiring running to battery ect ect...I agree they will all work well but I truly enjoy mine now!...i just keep it turned down.
IMO,i will ride mine as i have been along with others i know and keep testing this...I was up all night trying to figure out a stealth way to add elements of add cartridges but all in all i think it makes the $10,000 sled cheesy!
the fact is,the warmers are horrible...we ALL know this FIX didnt work(07 bars)....I would Love to see the POLL include how well our 07 bars worked,specifically if they got HOT or LUKE WARM...HECK,we had that poll last season about bars right?..why not another poll?..this season i beleive its even more of an issue cause they need to know their so called fix doesnt work any better.
I encourage guys who are testing this MOD(like myself)to post your results....ofcourse you are all full aware by now this MAY cause harm(my disclaimer)
stay warm!
Dan
this is like a daily ritual now eh?..coming into the handwarmer thread to see what the latest news is....
I know Im not the most POPULAR guy here according to TY ,but is there a chance we could get a poll on WHO did this MOD and how many issues we are seeing with the MOD?
I think this would be a great service to ALL on TY....Ive been the guinie pig for near 3 weeks now,and I know of upwards of 20 others who are running this setup as well....it would be great to see a POLL as to how its working in the field.
also,I truly believe the Bulletin is more or less Yamaha Canada trying to cover their butts once again...last season we saw them say there is no problem and now they are telling us we are SOL with the so called 07 update fix...what are we to do?
kevin,your ideas are fantastic....however I feel MODDING the sled in those ways(adding more aftermarket,cartridges,elements,switches ect) makes the sleds very "cheesy" for lack of a better word.LOL.
I dont want to have extra switches hanging around,and extra wiring running to battery ect ect...I agree they will all work well but I truly enjoy mine now!...i just keep it turned down.
IMO,i will ride mine as i have been along with others i know and keep testing this...I was up all night trying to figure out a stealth way to add elements of add cartridges but all in all i think it makes the $10,000 sled cheesy!
the fact is,the warmers are horrible...we ALL know this FIX didnt work(07 bars)....I would Love to see the POLL include how well our 07 bars worked,specifically if they got HOT or LUKE WARM...HECK,we had that poll last season about bars right?..why not another poll?..this season i beleive its even more of an issue cause they need to know their so called fix doesnt work any better.
I encourage guys who are testing this MOD(like myself)to post your results....ofcourse you are all full aware by now this MAY cause harm(my disclaimer)
stay warm!
Dan
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Let's cover some basics so we dont pull in 10 different directions.
How did this happen?
The grip part of the ECU is probably the same as RX1.
But handle bars went higher, windshields lower and narrower on average because of the lighter weight structure. and hooks were added.
Why do I not have the perfect fix?
The corporate snowmobile guys probably fought like heck to get the budget they did to get you more heat (replacement bars and harness).
Budget requirements to replace all CPUs (just doing simple guess of sled #s X cost per unit) might be 5 million dollars. To cover that for example to stay at the same (profit, break even or loss) margin you would have to lay off over 100 employees. The corporate bean counters say NO despite what the sled division guys would like to do to make it right.
WTF, why didnt you guys chime in sooner, before I rewired my bars?
Warnings were there early on. But the guys suggesting jump on the bandwagon were 100 times louder. This is an open forum, if what you post does not break any rules, 99.999% of the posts are going to stay.
Conclusion?
Biotching wont do much good, no way to get the budget for perfection. The $30 dollar Port cartridge solution is safe and we may find some other safe ways to improve the situation.
How did this happen?
The grip part of the ECU is probably the same as RX1.
But handle bars went higher, windshields lower and narrower on average because of the lighter weight structure. and hooks were added.
Why do I not have the perfect fix?
The corporate snowmobile guys probably fought like heck to get the budget they did to get you more heat (replacement bars and harness).
Budget requirements to replace all CPUs (just doing simple guess of sled #s X cost per unit) might be 5 million dollars. To cover that for example to stay at the same (profit, break even or loss) margin you would have to lay off over 100 employees. The corporate bean counters say NO despite what the sled division guys would like to do to make it right.
WTF, why didnt you guys chime in sooner, before I rewired my bars?
Warnings were there early on. But the guys suggesting jump on the bandwagon were 100 times louder. This is an open forum, if what you post does not break any rules, 99.999% of the posts are going to stay.
Conclusion?
Biotching wont do much good, no way to get the budget for perfection. The $30 dollar Port cartridge solution is safe and we may find some other safe ways to improve the situation.
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