What could Yamaha offer to make you buy a new sled?

[journeyman]

Two things would interest me.

1) a factory turboed Apex XTX.

2) a sled that is designed similar to a REV XP800 in a 128-136" track, has a new rear skid like a R Motion but best of all has a triple cylinder DFI 2 stroke based off the SRX/Viper. IMO Yamaha should have kept a couple around and we know they could do it. Look at their outboards.

The latter is not a knock on the 4 stroke but I recently had dinner with Brian Dick, racer and engineer from Arctic Cat. We talked about different engine designs and he mentioned that Arctic's research has shown that their customer base is almost split down the middle....about half wanting 4 strokes and the other half wanting 2 strokes.

 

[Ruckus]

For the most part, trail riders want 4 strokes and backcountry/aggressive riders want 2 strokes.

 

[yamaha1973]

As far as two strokes go i think its pretty safe to say that there done they've gone away with it in pretty much all the lines (outboards, sleds, dirt bikes, etc.)

 

[srvfan]

A traditional chassis with good wind protection phaser motor but much quieter with a quiet track with good ride quality for under 9000 base price essentially a faster doo ACE build that and watch the line wind out the door. This will give them the market share to do a few things like turbos etc for the mountain crowd.

Look we all love the corvette and the hottest version of the mustang but that's not what sells people by a Cruze or a Focus.

Pretty simple really, when the phaser was the top selling sled yammie had the vmax 540 and the SRV as the top performers.

Same thing still applies a 200 hp turbo Apex for 19,000 would be cool the market would be small

 

[nards444]

Two things would interest me.

1) a factory turboed Apex XTX.

2) a sled that is designed similar to a REV XP800 in a 128-136" track, has a new rear skid like a R Motion but best of all has a triple cylinder DFI 2 stroke based off the SRX/Viper. IMO Yamaha should have kept a couple around and we know they could do it. Look at their outboards.

The latter is not a knock on the 4 stroke but I recently had dinner with Brian Dick, racer and engineer from Arctic Cat. We talked about different engine designs and he mentioned that Arctic's research has shown that their customer base is almost split down the middle....about half wanting 4 strokes and the other half wanting 2 strokes.

That may be for now, but 5 years from now I bet you see the two stroke a thing of the past except maybe a small 600cc model or so for racers and others. To be honest with you everybody I have been talking to either has a 4 stroke oris talking about going to one when they get their next sled. They are easier to maintain, smoother and will last longer, they kind of are a no brainer.

 

[HartleRacing]

i think yamaha just needs a new chassis. ONE single chassis that can house all of their engines, from trial all the way up too the mountain.

other than that, i think yamaha has the right idea.
1. we have engines that will make a Rolex begin to sweat. they have been proven to hit close to 40,000 on the OD and guiness can back my comment.
2. yamaha is starting simple ideas that have other companies firing engineers for not having their companies come up with them first. (power steering, 4-Stroke revolution, among others)
3. alot of the components on our sleds are damn near bullet proof from the factory. Clutching, Engines, Front suspension
4. fit and finish, along with overall quality is higher than any other brand as hard as it is to admit.

 

[EnticerRider]

A traditional chassis with good wind protection phaser motor but much quieter with a quiet track with good ride quality for under 9000 base price essentially a faster doo ACE build that and watch the line wind out the door. This will give them the market share to do a few things like turbos etc for the mountain crowd.

Look we all love the corvette and the hottest version of the mustang but that's not what sells people by a Cruze or a Focus.

Pretty simple really, when the phaser was the top selling sled yammie had the vmax 540 and the SRV as the top performers.

Same thing still applies a 200 hp turbo Apex for 19,000 would be cool the market would be small

One chassis for all is a measure that may sound good on paper but maybe hard to accomplish
I think ski doo is the only mfgr to successfully run one chassis across the board on all models. Maybe the Original fire cat also applies. How do you build one for everyone and still keep the right ergos for all markets. The apex delta box 2 has the touring covered but imagine trying to build a light weight chassis that has good wind protection is comfortable and is easy for anyone to ride and is just as good for a aggressive rider. Not to mention how do you harness the 150hp class in this light weight chassis and keep structural integrity but still feel appropriate and not hinder a 80hp engine. I like the less than $9k price tag and maybe a supercharged phazer engine for that price getting it to 100hp for that 9k.

 

[HartleRacing]

A traditional chassis with good wind protection phaser motor but much quieter with a quiet track with good ride quality for under 9000 base price essentially a faster doo ACE build that and watch the line wind out the door. This will give them the market share to do a few things like turbos etc for the mountain crowd.

Look we all love the corvette and the hottest version of the mustang but that's not what sells people by a Cruze or a Focus.

Pretty simple really, when the phaser was the top selling sled yammie had the vmax 540 and the SRV as the top performers.

Same thing still applies a 200 hp turbo Apex for 19,000 would be cool the market would be small

One chassis for all is a measure that may sound good on paper but maybe hard to accomplish
I think ski doo is the only mfgr to successfully run one chassis across the board on all models. Maybe the Original fire cat also applies. How do you build one for everyone and still keep the right ergos for all markets. The apex delta box 2 has the touring covered but imagine trying to build a light weight chassis that has good wind protection is comfortable and is easy for anyone to ride and is just as good for a aggressive rider. Not to mention how do you harness the 150hp class in this light weight chassis and keep structural integrity but still feel appropriate and not hinder a 80hp engine. I like the less than $9k price tag and maybe a supercharged phazer engine for that price getting it to 100hp for that 9k.

if yamaha made all of their sleds on one chassis, the overhead cost for the company would be less, and in theory that alone could lower our cost to buy one new.. hell the arctic cat pro-cross/climb chassis is looking to do the job pretty damn well. it may not be the lightest, but magazines are already raving about how well the chassis handles damn near anything you throw at it..

 

[srvfan]

Two chassis 1 larger for bigger hp sleds and 1 for smaller sleds but with real wind protection real comfy seats and reasonable power and price

FYI doo has more than 1 chassis the GSx is different

The new cat is only available with big motors and is expensive it's not used for a fan or 500/600 motor.

 

[journeyman]

Two things would interest me.

1) a factory turboed Apex XTX.

2) a sled that is designed similar to a REV XP800 in a 128-136" track, has a new rear skid like a R Motion but best of all has a triple cylinder DFI 2 stroke based off the SRX/Viper. IMO Yamaha should have kept a couple around and we know they could do it. Look at their outboards.

The latter is not a knock on the 4 stroke but I recently had dinner with Brian Dick, racer and engineer from Arctic Cat. We talked about different engine designs and he mentioned that Arctic's research has shown that their customer base is almost split down the middle....about half wanting 4 strokes and the other half wanting 2 strokes.

That may be for now, but 5 years from now I bet you see the two stroke a thing of the past except maybe a small 600cc model or so for racers and others. To be honest with you everybody I have been talking to either has a 4 stroke oris talking about going to one when they get their next sled. They are easier to maintain, smoother and will last longer, they kind of are a no brainer.

I knew someone would say this. I recently had my Viper shocks re-valved by probably the best guy out there in my state of Minnesota. He is now doing suspension tuning for the Boss Racing team and was Nathan Titus's suspension guy with Yamaha 10+ yrs. ago.....now getting back to Cat (not that they mean anything to Yamaha) but he claimed that the 4 strokes that Cat has recently infused into their lineup isn't necessary the sign they are going all 4 stroke. He claims they are kind of a stop gap until they can get their 600 and 1000 2 strokes in DFI to meet emissions. So last week I asked Brian Dick from Arctic Cat if there is any truth in this and he said yes. So IMO, I think some 2 strokes will continue to be around.......look at what Ski-Doo has accomplished.

 

[EnticerRider]

Two chassis 1 larger for bigger hp sleds and 1 for smaller sleds but with real wind protection real comfy seats and reasonable power and price

FYI doo has more than 1 chassis the GSx is different

The new cat is only available with big motors and is expensive it's not used for a fan or 500/600 motor.

yeah the gsx line up is the XR just a pregnant xp

 

[AKrider]

One chassis across the performance line-up is the proven way to success. As long as the chassis is light, handles and rides well, it will be a winner, guaranteed. Look at the original 1980 TX-L Indy. Polaris ran that basic chassis with upgrades each year for close to 20 years and was #1 for many of those years. Ski-doo started doing the same thing with the ZX chassis and then with the Rev they took over #1. Yamaha had a good thing going with the Pro-Action chassis but in typical Yamaha fashion quit updating it for ride and handling improvements and it languished. Now they have too many different types of chassis and none do anything particularly well.

They should fire all their current chassis people and start over with a clean slate. The motor guys do a great job.

 

[low slung]

Heres a recent patent filed by yamaha for a sled.No images.Could be the next clean sheet of paper http://ip.com/patapp/CA2737311A1

 

[nards444]

Two things would interest me.

1) a factory turboed Apex XTX.

2) a sled that is designed similar to a REV XP800 in a 128-136" track, has a new rear skid like a R Motion but best of all has a triple cylinder DFI 2 stroke based off the SRX/Viper. IMO Yamaha should have kept a couple around and we know they could do it. Look at their outboards.

The latter is not a knock on the 4 stroke but I recently had dinner with Brian Dick, racer and engineer from Arctic Cat. We talked about different engine designs and he mentioned that Arctic's research has shown that their customer base is almost split down the middle....about half wanting 4 strokes and the other half wanting 2 strokes.

That may be for now, but 5 years from now I bet you see the two stroke a thing of the past except maybe a small 600cc model or so for racers and others. To be honest with you everybody I have been talking to either has a 4 stroke oris talking about going to one when they get their next sled. They are easier to maintain, smoother and will last longer, they kind of are a no brainer.

I knew someone would say this. I recently had my Viper shocks re-valved by probably the best guy out there in my state of Minnesota. He is now doing suspension tuning for the Boss Racing team and was Nathan Titus's suspension guy with Yamaha 10+ yrs. ago.....now getting back to Cat (not that they mean anything to Yamaha) but he claimed that the 4 strokes that Cat has recently infused into their lineup isn't necessary the sign they are going all 4 stroke. He claims they are kind of a stop gap until they can get their 600 and 1000 2 strokes in DFI to meet emissions. So last week I asked Brian Dick from Arctic Cat if there is any truth in this and he said yes. So IMO, I think some 2 strokes will continue to be around.......look at what Ski-Doo has accomplished.

You may be right I believe there will always a be a two stroke in every line up as every line up has a four stroke, the want will always be there for agressive/ racers. But comparing the cat and yami markets is like apples and oranges. Yamaha went four stroke in 2003. Now 8 years later just about everything they have is four stroke, it took time for people to change their wants and needs. Arctic cat has only introduced 4 strokes now for what 3-4 years. You know whats to come next is trubos and blowers on sleds, at that point there would be no reason to go back to a two stroke because like I said I can change my oil once a year, keep plugs in there for multiple years and guess what my engine can last 30-40k miles vs rebuilding my two stroke at 4k. Right now I have both so not saying im a two stroke hater. But lets be frank the writing is on the wall.

 

[Dano]

For me all I would love is to just update a Nytro.

- Get rid of the rear exhaust so we can have storage in the back and rid of some 20 lb ice build up under tunnel.
- Install decent gauges such as off the vector
- install decent size fuel tank to have same range as competition
- Time for more tweaking in front geometry.
- bring back fibreglass hoods/panels and quality paint that yamaha once had.

Most of this is available with the competition and I would be hard pressed to not buy a Doo 1200 over a Nytro right now.
As much as its nice to have 200 hp on tap, I'm always ahead of the pack with my little 135 hp torquey motor.

Dan