what I think should be in the 2014 apex

[blue er]

My dealer mentioned that there was some line up changes coming but didn't know what it was, as usual the rumor mill is in full swing.
more power is nice but the cross plane makes less hp then the 5-valve r1 engines and again its 180+hp is around 12000 rpm that may just be to much gear reduction to get it to run smooth. there is still many tricks yamaha can have up there sleeves for the 998 engine like direct injection varible valve timing and lift forced induction it is a great engine and i believe the weight difference is less than 10lbs with the nytro engine.

 

[wedge]

Everyone is talking about lighter or diets...

Has anyone saying they need to make the sled lighter ridden the new sleds with EPS? It makes a rediculous difference in driving the sled.

The APEX is designed to be a "Trail" sled. If you are out pounding powder in an APEX, you should realistically look at the Polaris Assault. The sled dominates everything else in this category. If your riding groomed trails, where the sled was designed to be riding, the sled is already great. Buying the APEX as a crossover sled is tempting to people that love Blue, but its probably a bad idea.

Being a bunch of snow hounds on here, I dont know how many of you have ridden or driven a sand rail. It is actually very similar to snowmobiling, just on the sand with a car that seats 4 people. Like the designs of these cars, the items that matter for performance are not just the weight. The horsepower and handling of that horsepower are more important. Suspension to match the weight is more important than the weight itself. If the shocks compress properly when you pound into a corner and release properly when you come out, with the right amount of horsepower pushing you thru it, the weight doesnt matter. The ratio's of these things combined all matching from an engineering standpoint is what gives you "Performance". If you need a lighter sled, you probably need to make some adjustments to your suspension, or you need to actually learn how to corner your sled.

So taking my opinion (probably overstated) into account, here is what I would like to see....

1.) The ability to manually adjust the power steering to less by the rider like a dial that can go from the setting it is on and just down to no power steering.
2.) Sleds should come with the dupont hyfax and tuner skis stock.
3.) Go to a single chassis and change engines and suspension packages, similar to Polaris and Skidoo
4.) Less complex reverse system
5.) Start using the bonding glue, like Polaris instead of all of the rivots.
6.) Change exhaust so that back grab bar area and tunnel on longer sleds becomes a more useful space for bags, etc.
7.) Shorten seat lenght to create more useful space on sled.
8.) Offer a turbo model for people wanting higher performance.
9.) Adjust gauge pod so it is either tiltable for standing when riding, or change angle permanantly so you can see it when both standing or sitting.
10.) More color / graphics options. Actually get creative so we dont have to spend hundreds more on it.

 

[Super Sled]

Re: Everyone is talking about lighter or diets...

Has anyone saying they need to make the sled lighter ridden the new sleds with EPS? It makes a rediculous difference in driving the sled.

The APEX is designed to be a "Trail" sled. If you are out pounding powder in an APEX, you should realistically look at the Polaris Assault. The sled dominates everything else in this category. If your riding groomed trails, where the sled was designed to be riding, the sled is already great. Buying the APEX as a crossover sled is tempting to people that love Blue, but its probably a bad idea.

Being a bunch of snow hounds on here, I dont know how many of you have ridden or driven a sand rail. It is actually very similar to snowmobiling, just on the sand with a car that seats 4 people. Like the designs of these cars, the items that matter for performance are not just the weight. The horsepower and handling of that horsepower are more important. Suspension to match the weight is more important than the weight itself. If the shocks compress properly when you pound into a corner and release properly when you come out, with the right amount of horsepower pushing you thru it, the weight doesnt matter. The ratio's of these things combined all matching from an engineering standpoint is what gives you "Performance". If you need a lighter sled, you probably need to make some adjustments to your suspension, or you need to actually learn how to corner your sled.

So taking my opinion (probably overstated) into account, here is what I would like to see....

1.) The ability to manually adjust the power steering to less by the rider like a dial that can go from the setting it is on and just down to no power steering.
2.) Sleds should come with the dupont hyfax and tuner skis stock.
3.) Go to a single chassis and change engines and suspension packages, similar to Polaris and Skidoo
4.) Less complex reverse system
5.) Start using the bonding glue, like Polaris instead of all of the rivots.
6.) Change exhaust so that back grab bar area and tunnel on longer sleds becomes a more useful space for bags, etc.
7.) Shorten seat lenght to create more useful space on sled.
8.) Offer a turbo model for people wanting higher performance.
9.) Adjust gauge pod so it is either tiltable for standing when riding, or change angle permanantly so you can see it when both standing or sitting.
10.) More color / graphics options. Actually get creative so we dont have to spend hundreds more on it.

Hey Wedge, I don't have EPS (some seat time with it, maybe a few hours max tho) on my Attak so I can't comment too much on that, but I think a lot like you on your comments. Nice post here IMHO.

 

[marq]

The cross plane engine didn't work well in sleds -- the rhythm was off in it and was rough. That's how the story went as I heard it.

+1

Chris specifically mentioned this in one of the sled talk blog posts. Don't hold your breath waiting for crossplane to come to the snowmobile lineup.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Everyone is talking about lighter or diets...

Has anyone saying they need to make the sled lighter ridden the new sleds with EPS? It makes a rediculous difference in driving the sled.

The APEX is designed to be a "Trail" sled. If you are out pounding powder in an APEX, you should realistically look at the Polaris Assault. The sled dominates everything else in this category. If your riding groomed trails, where the sled was designed to be riding, the sled is already great. Buying the APEX as a crossover sled is tempting to people that love Blue, but its probably a bad idea.

Being a bunch of snow hounds on here, I dont know how many of you have ridden or driven a sand rail. It is actually very similar to snowmobiling, just on the sand with a car that seats 4 people. Like the designs of these cars, the items that matter for performance are not just the weight. The horsepower and handling of that horsepower are more important. Suspension to match the weight is more important than the weight itself. If the shocks compress properly when you pound into a corner and release properly when you come out, with the right amount of horsepower pushing you thru it, the weight doesnt matter. The ratio's of these things combined all matching from an engineering standpoint is what gives you "Performance". If you need a lighter sled, you probably need to make some adjustments to your suspension, or you need to actually learn how to corner your sled.

So taking my opinion (probably overstated) into account, here is what I would like to see....

1.) The ability to manually adjust the power steering to less by the rider like a dial that can go from the setting it is on and just down to no power steering.
2.) Sleds should come with the dupont hyfax and tuner skis stock.
3.) Go to a single chassis and change engines and suspension packages, similar to Polaris and Skidoo
4.) Less complex reverse system
5.) Start using the bonding glue, like Polaris instead of all of the rivots.
6.) Change exhaust so that back grab bar area and tunnel on longer sleds becomes a more useful space for bags, etc.
7.) Shorten seat lenght to create more useful space on sled.
8.) Offer a turbo model for people wanting higher performance.
9.) Adjust gauge pod so it is either tiltable for standing when riding, or change angle permanantly so you can see it when both standing or sitting.
10.) More color / graphics options. Actually get creative so we dont have to spend hundreds more on it.

I like many of the items on your list. 95% of the miles on my sled are from the Quebec trail system and when I ride my buddies lighter 2 strokes the weight is the first thing I notice. Sure power steering and setup will make that better, but wouldn't the effect of these things be even better if the sled started out 100 lbs lighter? Dont get me wrong, I am not interested in lighter weight at the expense of durability and quality. That is why I ride what I ride and not the lighter two strokes, but if Yamaha ignores the weight issue on the next new sled they build, it will be a huge mistake IMO.

 

[pkluck]

Wedge agree with your changes. I have two Apex's with EPS and I ride mainly on trials but who doesn't like to hit the open areas/lakes every so often. Deep snow in open areas is where Apex's are out of place, just pray you don't get stuck. Shoot just loading and unloading these heavy beasts on and off a trailer is a chore. Weight needs to be addressed IMO.

 

[kinger]

I dont think the weight is a issue if they shaved 50lbs so what, what I like is the abuse the sled will take I like the cast aluminum bulkhead its proved to be nearly indestructuable. They could sub out all the steel brackets for aluminum, etc but IMO when the rider can change the weight of the sled 30-40% I dont think you will notice 50-80lbs.

I have dropped weight on my sled thinking its was required, I never noticed any difference. Mine weighs about 50lbs less then stock.

I think people get caught up with the skidoo marketing vs real world riding. I 100% agree a 4 stroke has no place in the mountains unless you want it just to boost it. On the trails though 80-100lbs is nothing.

I may have a biased opinion because mine is boosted running 250hp so the power to weight ratio is actually better then a new ski doo so that may be while I dont feel it. I do know its heavy when stuck and while moving around in garage but they all are kind of.

Wedges suggestions are good ones.

 

[rindtj]

I think the two places where weight becomes really apparent are in the mountain and backcountry-where your body movement is what is actually maneuvering the sled. Also on very very rough trails- although shock valving and suspension engineering is probably even more important.

Where weight really doesn't matter is on 95% of trails, Ski Doo marketing has done a great job making this seem wrong. Ski-Doos handle great and are awesome machines, not ALL because of weight. The REV-XP chassis design and engineering is amazing and flat-out works. If you added 10% everywhere to the sled- do you think it would now handle worse? How about a full tank compared to empty- your snowmobiles handle noticeably worse on the trail? Probably not.

 

[nate007]

I agree with those that say the weight isn't a big concern. I'd never want to give up the quality and durability of the sled to save some weight.

That being said, I do think Yamaha should look at what people have said over the last 10-12 years about the platform, and without having to re-invent the wheel, they could really make the Apex a formidable sled in the market.
1. Simplify the gearbox. While it works well, we all know the reverse mechanism leaves a bit to be desired. It's sensitive to adjust and complicated, and IMO, could use a belt drive, a planetary gear on the top pulley for reverse, and a simpler, cable driven actuator. Having a manual lever for reverse is fine as I'd rather have a simpler electrical system to work on once as the sled ages.
2. The power steering is no doubt a big hit for Yamaha, and the current setup seems to be the quickest "fix" to get it on the machine as it is very similar to the quad markets set up. Why not have the electric assist mechanism down in the nose of the sled, eliminate most of the complicated and wear prone suspension components, and use a simpler push/pull cable like a boat? I would think that if the assist mechanism was doing all the work, adn not putting the torque on as many components, it would save weight, lower the center of gravity, simplify the entire system, be easier to service than all those links and heims?
3. Storage. Why not have a seat that can hinge open like many motorcycles do and have a storage area that is the largest on the market? Make the seat just a little taller as many will agree taller aftermarket seats are great, but be able to flip it open and use all the space? That'd reduce or eliminate the need for tie downs, keep your belongings out of the weather, and move the weight of stored items forward for better c/g?
4. Suspension. No surprise. While many debate what's good, what works, what's best, theres little doubt that Yamaha needs to catch up with the competition in this department. There's so much technology available for suspension tech, at very least I think we'd all like to see them team up with a top tier suspension company to at least design a few new models of skids to suit different needs.
5. Engine. It's hard to argue that the 4cyl sound and power is an addicting thing. There aren't many sleds that can go wide open for miles across a lake without making a long walk home. As for the power output, the new engine model with the variable exhaust is an awesome engine, and plenty of power for the vast majority of buyers. All I'd love to see is a limited production, high horsepower, "here kitty kitty" model that sqarely puts Yamaha on top of the horsepower heap. Keep the rest of a line-up, but give us at least a limited run of a high horsepower engine... Just build a "special edition". I'd bet they'd all be sold before they get to the dealers, and I'd be there early to be in the front of the line!
I think a few tweaks for simplicity (maybe cheaper to build too) and a special edition sled to get the market talking would be a huge sucess. Look at the car market? The ZL1 Camaro's, GT500 Mustangs, Hennesey Vipers, etc, etc, aren't always easy to get, you don't see alot of them, but they get tons of attention, help sell their brands, and are a great way to say "look what we can do". Come on Yamaha, give us an A-Max4!

 

[kinger]

A-Max4 I love that idea!!

 

[nate007]

The limited production, numbered stuff sells really well in the automotive world, and I really think If Yamaha built a limited "bad boy" model, that'd really get everyone talking!

 

[IAVECTORGT]

A-MAX4, love it!!!! I personally would like to see the SRX and/or VMAX names come back also as hyper sleds in some way shape or form! A limited edition sled I can guaran-gosh-darn-tee I'd own one!!!

 

[wedge]

I do like the idea of a specialty sled.

Maybe have a Turbo Apex version, bump the HP to 200+ and call it a Yamaha APEX SRX!

 

[sheetwright]

I see no need for an Apex if they increase the horse power of the Nytro. If you could have a new entry sled to replace the phazer, the vector with some Nytro torque, and Nytro with about 180HP why do you need a heavy 150hp Apex. Especially if there is the potential for the race front end on the nytro style. That would give it a 136" stance on a 121" track making it feel flatter and still eating the bumps. If anything make the Vector about 135-140HP, the new entry at 120-125hp, and the Nytro at 180, and you have something. Just my .02......

Especially if Yamaha is really going to switch it up.We need to see a vmax4, srx 700, or a RX1 shake up in the world again IMO

 

[devinzz1]

I see no need for an Apex if they increase the horse power of the Nytro. If you could have a new entry sled to replace the phazer, the vector with some Nytro torque, and Nytro with about 180HP why do you need a heavy 150hp Apex. Especially if there is the potential for the race front end on the nytro style. That would give it a 136" stance on a 121" track making it feel flatter and still eating the bumps. If anything make the Vector about 135-140HP, the new entry at 120-125hp, and the Nytro at 180, and you have something. Just my .02......

exactly! And of course price is a massive factor. ( yamaha isnt known for its low low prices )