When will they wake up? 2014 hopefully

[AKrider]

I hope Chris Brown is able to have some influence on them to change things for the lighter.

 

[couch]

FYI I own a Rx venture and a apex mountain both ate up for sale

sounds like you should have done a bit more research before you bought two!

To each their own ... with new machines running $13,000 + I'll take a little more weight & reliability over the others any time. Yes Yamaha did make awesome 2 strokes as well and were as or more reliable than any other brand but they are still 2 strokes and subject to the same issues (FYI i also have a Yam Exciter jet boat with twin 1200 triples + a pair of Saltwater Series 150 HP outboards that were under salt water for 18 days and still run, plus a few Sno Sports). The 2 strokes are finicky and smell. I have had to rebuild the motors in the jet boat a couple of times - no such thing as a "cheap" top end rebuild - and every time we leave to go to the pond I start the motors before I bother pulling out of the yard!

Agreed that Yam needs to shed some weight - lighter suspensions (like Timbersled), rework the exhaust, open boards (like Poo or Skinz), battery & electrical harness could be refined, rework / simplify steering linkages, plus a few other items. For the most part the rest is the rider - some are better than others and for most people the extra 50 / 70 lbs likely won't make much of a difference. Have watched way too many people on the latest and greatest new machines (all brands) who stay right behind the lead sled!

As for the 4 stroke Yamaha's, out of the dozen in the shed not one has been towed! Have I been stuck .... sure but if I never got stuck then I wouldn't be trying hard enough. BTW all sleds with a track full of heavy wet snow are heavy and unless you are a power lifter you likely can't lift any of them ... I've had a Tundra stuck and had to winch it out and those were about the lightest weight sleds ever produced.

TY rocks as it has the most helpful users of all the forums ... your post in another thread didn't get a lot of traction so seems that you would try to start something in a new thread. Go ahead and sell your sleds - ride something that makes you feel better - and then move along to another site.

[quote]Hey couch 
Just because some people have different opinions doesn't mean they don't love the Yamaha brand. I am selling both sleds which have awesome engines and the reason is weight Yamaha are way to heavy it's a fact and there biggest down fall. So what if some of us like two strokes I like four strokes too. But where I ride you need alot of power to weight and the Yamaha snowmobile is just too heavy. You should be supporting a lighter Yamaha thread and not be so one demensional. I'm sure if they could make a four stroke with 160+ hp and under 450lbs u and I would both love it. So don't bash me and say move to a different site because you don't want to hear the truth and that is Yamaha sleds are poor off trail machines compared to two strokes which are lighter and easier to manover. I started this thread not to bash Yamaha but to see how many people here would like the idea of a direct injected Yamaha two stroke. Not a Polaris or bomb. I'd love to see them make and I'm sure if they did they be the best engines just like they were before. Sorry if I ruffled you feathers but IMO four stroked machines are not near as good off trail in 6 ft of powder.[/quote]


Seems that from my post I did agree that Yamaha needs to loose some weight and that you should ride what you like / makes you feel happy be it 2 or 4 stroke.  FYI this forum is called "TY4stroke" not "hey maybe we should go back to 2 strokes" .  Yes the 2 strokes are lighter - maybe its because they have fewer parts!  Seems like you have made the decision to move on to something else - you indicated that your two sleds are for sale - your choice!  Yamaha has moved the 4 stroke issue along in part for performance and also in part due to emissions standards plus looking at the other forums it would appear that the 2 strokes generally do not last as long as the 4 strokes (I just look and reserve my comments) - on some of the sites they even take polls regarding engine failures within 500 / 1000 / 1500 miles!  BTW if the other sleds are so great, why do they offer suspensions, shocks, boards, performance parts for those too - seems as they all have issues / quirks / handicaps.   

My feathers aren't ruffled but please go on the other sites if you want to start bash threads.  I like this site because for the most part the users provide great info / tips / performance improvement suggestions / etc.   Not everyone is lucky enough to ride in 6' of powder all the time.  

.

 

[yox185]

It's funny seems like every year someone, a former Yamaha guy, feels the need to come on here a tell everyone why they should be like him and ditch Yamaha.

 

[07 Apex Gt]

Seems that from my post I did agree that Yamaha needs to loose some weight and that you should ride what you like / makes you feel happy be it 2 or 4 stroke. FYI this forum is called "TY4stroke" not "hey maybe we should go back to 2 strokes" . Yes the 2 strokes are lighter - maybe its because they have fewer parts! Seems like you have made the decision to move on to something else - you indicated that your two sleds are for sale - your choice! Yamaha has moved the 4 stroke issue along in part for performance and also in part due to emissions standards plus looking at the other forums it would appear that the 2 strokes generally do not last as long as the 4 strokes (I just look and reserve my comments) - on some of the sites they even take polls regarding engine failures within 500 / 1000 / 1500 miles! BTW if the other sleds are so great, why do they offer suspensions, shocks, boards, performance parts for those too - seems as they all have issues / quirks / handicaps.

My feathers aren't ruffled but please go on the other sites if you want to start bash threads. I like this site because for the most part the users provide great info / tips / performance improvement suggestions / etc. Not everyone is lucky enough to ride in 6' of powder all the time.

.

well said

 

[Ak Yammy]

Let's hope '14 is a good year as I really don't want a Cat. I will say after riding the Turbo I almost pulled the trigger. I waited and read up on them on HCR and there is some scary stuff on there. Suzuki turbo motor is great but the whole drive system sucks. I am doing a wait and see for hope Yam does something good.

 

[yamaha1973]

It's funny seems like every year someone, a former Yamaha guy, feels the need to come on here a tell everyone why they should be like him and ditch Yamaha.

X2

 

[snobill]

misery loves company

 

[LSXM3]

I want my 15 minutes back I just lost from reading this!

In all seriousness sure Yamaha could loose a few pounds but hell I'm sure most of us could as well. I will take the weight penalty any day when i know for a fact that i will be able to ride my sled out from anywhere, anytime, anyday! I was a huge 2s guy until i bought my nytro. Sure it was lacking from the factory but so was every 2s i owned, so I started to modify it until it became what i wanted out of it, now it is 537lbs wet and is still dead nuts reliable and i will ride it until it is dead....and at this point that will be a long LONG time, more than i can say about any 2s I have ever owned!

 

[pat the rat]

Other than riding the mountains, snocross track, and maybe the ice ovals, why in the hell do you need a 400 pound 165 hp sled for!!!!! I like speed as much as some others..What the hell is the hurry..Snowmobile trails can only handle so much speed, especially with others coming the other way...No I am not 85 years old, I am not even 40 yet, but have had to many close calls in the trails from guys that think they can handle corners at 85mph because there sled is 400lbs and has 150 hp..Yamaha needs to concentrate on good reliable fuel efficient sleds that have a great ride and lasts for years...

Well said,I feel the same way,the thing that bothers me the most is all the magazines and tv shows that are promoting fast riding,it's always about how great doo or cat can handle corners without lifting the inside ski,your suppose to slow down in corners,not push the sled until the ski's lift,I have had a lot of close calls also over the years cuz of Blair Morgan whanabes

 

[stevewithOCD]

V-Maximum i'm going to defend you even though i'm on COUCH's side here. Your post should have started "Yamaha needs to lose weight off trail". Off trail riding is a large & growing part of this sport & Yamaha has a very small part of that because of their weight. If they want part of that market, they need to lose serious weight. I DO NOT believe going to 2- stroke is the only way to do it though. There's no question a 4-stroke will always weigh more, but i believe they can find a happy medium for OFF TRAIL. You ended up bashing 4-strokes more than you did the weight. AKRIDER who is one of the loudest "weight issue" guys here, is sticking with 4-stroke...that says something right there...

 

[Ak Yammy]

Wow I can't believe some of the things I am reading on here. I am definitely not taking V-maximum's side on all of this but come on. Saying we need to slow down in the corners so we don't hurt some one so it's ok that these machines don't handle? WHAT? What about guys with wide open trails and rivers like we have here with little to no traffic and no restrictions. I don't want someone telling me that I need to slow down here when there is no one around to worry about.
I have cousins that ride the Zoo at Tug hill in NY and they brought me along one time. I can see an argument in a place like that but people that want to go fast are going to anyway so ticket the offenders but don't punish everyone.

 

[AKrider]

AK Yammy, well said.

In a general response to the "heavier means more reliable mantra" that I read over and over from brand loyal Yamaha riders, does anyone else see the irony in that philosophy? Take the subframe on the Nytro as an example. Since fall of '07 I've read many posts about guys bending their subframes. The damage is almost always impact related but my point is, heavy doesn't mean reliable. The poorly designed & heavy Yamaha subframe made out of cheap, low carbon steel is just as susceptible to damage as a light weight, cast, all aluminum S-module on a Ski-doo XP. Additionally that same, "weak", unreliable XP chassis has been a proven winner in racing since '08 and won many, many more sno-x & cross country races, series championships and the Iron Dog. I won't defend Doo's 2-stroke motors but their 4-strokes ARE reliable, preform well and their XR chassis is lighter and better handling than a Yamaha.

Back in '07 Chris Reid's did a blog article on the choice between LIGHT / STRONG / CHEAP… you can pick any two but you cannot have them all.
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2007/ ... -have-two/

Back then I believed it totally and completely from the Yamaha perspective. I remember the first time I saw a naked Ski-Doo XP chassis and believed the whole "it will break if it hits a pinecone" mantra on many of the forums. But in the years since the guys that I race with switched to Ski-doo and I've learned to appreciate how a very well designed and tested chassis can be LIGHT and STRONG and not be overly EXPENSIVE. Yamaha just needs to step up its game. Their 4-stroke motors have plenty of power, they just need to look at what Ski-doo is doing and see that the world has changed. Plenty of people agree that Doo's approach is correct as evidenced by their #1 market share. You don't get to #1 and stay there if your sleds are as unreliable as some on this site claim.

But heavy is more reliable.

 

[pat the rat]

Wow I can't believe some of the things I am reading on here. I am definitely not taking V-maximum's side on all of this but come on. Saying we need to slow down in the corners so we don't hurt some one so it's ok that these machines don't handle? WHAT? What about guys with wide open trails and rivers like we have here with little to no traffic and no restrictions. I don't want someone telling me that I need to slow down here when there is no one around to worry about.
I have cousins that ride the Zoo at Tug hill in NY and they brought me along one time. I can see an argument in a place like that but people that want to go fast are going to anyway so ticket the offenders but don't punish everyone.

I,m talking about groomed trail riding,of course we all want to go fast,and want them to handle,on lakes you can go 200 mph,I don't care,but on trails,we have to think about others also,that,s all I,m saying

 

[AKrider]

I understand your point of view but we don't have to penalize all riders by forcing them to have to live with a poor handling sled. People would actually be safer if all sleds handled well since there would be a lot fewer out of control guys careening around corners.

 

[tomanytoyz]

Yamaha knows whats going on,they can and still build 2-smokers.we will never see it in the Snowmobile world again,,,Reliability is the most important thing to me,who cares if its heavy.i feel stuck to the trail compared to the XP ski-doo thats light..and my machine sounds better and still alive for the mileage i rode.