When will they wake up? 2014 hopefully

[couch]

AK Yammy, well said.

Back in '07 Chris Reid's did a blog article on the choice between LIGHT / STRONG / CHEAP… you can pick any two but you cannot have them all.
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2007/ ... -have-two/

Instead of sleds, substitute just about any other manufactured item - car / truck / boat / computer / furniture / etc. - and the same mantra basically holds true. Undeniably sleds can be made lighter but often this will come at some expense - either cost will increase due to engineering / manufacturing / materials or strength will be sacrificed. My background is in Naval Architecture / Marine Engineering and the same hold true for that industry. When pushing the envelope to reduce weight to increase speed the "mantra" holds up - manufacturing & engineering & materials costs increase and in many cases the design is pushed as close to the lowest acceptable safety margins possible and durability takes a back seat.

Again, not saying that Yamaha cannot stand to loose some weight but if it comes at the expense of a significant reduction in durability / longevity then that would be a step backwards. Phazer / Nytro chassis (can't speak for the other models since I do not own any) could easily drop some weight in the skids, reduce the steering linkages for sharper handling with less weight and few parts by all means, lighten the exhaust while meeting the necessary standards I hope, centralize some of the forward weight would be nice (oil canister, battery, wiring harness), and quit using crappy "plastic" bushings, but please continue to keep reliability & durability top of mind.

Yes, Yamaha needs to step up its game, but I for one don't consider going back to "conventional" 2 strokes to be the best end game. Everything else is up for discussion.

 

[Vmax4]

Add turbo..... 270 hp MCXpress = MAJOR WEIGHT LOSS FEELING......

I call it my "anti-gravity flux capicitor........"

 

[T-Bone]

We can have it both ways. Yamaha engineers had to have a target weight in mind from the beginning design meetings for the new sled we are all waiting for. An honest 500 lbs should have been their target weight for the Apex replacement sled. It was not that long ago that the 2 smokes weighed 550 lbs, now they are about 450 give or take. The RX-1/Apex has not seen similar weight reductions and it is way over due.
I too enjoy the reliability of the Yamaha but they must progress with weight loss without the loosing reliability. It is possible, its yet to be determined if Yamaha wants to do it.

 

[kyleg]

does anyone know the weight of a nytro/apex motor and etec or equal motor?

 

[yamahabandit]

Let's hope '14 is a good year as I really don't want a Cat. I will say after riding the Turbo I almost pulled the trigger. I waited and read up on them on HCR and there is some scary stuff on there. Suzuki turbo motor is great but the whole drive system sucks . I am doing a wait and see for hope Yam does something good.

And problem with "the whole drive system" is ????

 

[Sasquatch]

Add turbo..... 270 hp MCXpress = MAJOR WEIGHT LOSS FEELING......

I call it my "anti-gravity flux capicitor........"

Now thats funny right there!

 

[Ak Yammy]

Let's hope '14 is a good year as I really don't want a Cat. I will say after riding the Turbo I almost pulled the trigger. I waited and read up on them on HCR and there is some scary stuff on there. Suzuki turbo motor is great but the whole drive system sucks . I am doing a wait and see for hope Yam does something good.

And problem with "the whole drive system" is ????

Not sure how yours has been, good I hope.
Thread after thread of clutch issues. Rollers breaking secondary bolts falling out/breaking. TCL cracking, jackshaft breaking in half reverse gear problems even on the '13's, chains, gears breaking and belts grenading. I know it's the net and if it were one or two posts I would say no biggie but man there are some unhappy guys on there. Like I said love the sled and sorry guys it made my ape feel slow just not sure on the reliability.

 

[brad d]

How much more should a 4 stroke weight next to a 2 stroke...... Let's see, 2 cams, cam and crank gears with chain, valve springs, valves, oil pump, more aluminium in the head..... And some oil, but the two strokes have oil and oil pumps as well.

I'd say they should be able to keep it around 30 lbs if they worked hard at it.

 

[cat hunter]

2s will never come back in my garage,the smell,the noise,lack of reliability,no thanks

X2

 

[dilligaf]

I understand your point of view but we don't have to penalize all riders by forcing them to have to live with a poor handling sled. People would actually be safer if all sleds handled well since there would be a lot fewer out of control guys careening around corners.

Actually, I find most Yamaha riders to be under control. But, for what ever reason there seems to be alot of Doo riders that are about to fly off of the trial and into the woods. I just pass them when its safe and put some distance between us.

 

[Murse]

This might hurt but out of curiosity what makes a Yamaha so heavy other than the additional 2 cylinders and perhaps the lengthy exhaust? What can they really eliminate to keep same reliability while loosing weight?

 

[PureBlue]

This might hurt but out of curiosity what makes a Yamaha so heavy other than the additional 2 cylinders and perhaps the lengthy exhaust? What can they really eliminate to keep same reliability while loosing weight?

I think on the Nytro it's the motor, witch they could go with cast titanium or magnesium for the block, the bulkhead could be made from the same material, and get rid of that truck muffler on the back. Put something like whats on the dirt bikes.

 

[HighSpeedLowDrag]

This might hurt but out of curiosity what makes a Yamaha so heavy other than the additional 2 cylinders and perhaps the lengthy exhaust? What can they really eliminate to keep same reliability while loosing weight?

I think on the Nytro it's the motor, witch they could go with cast titanium for the block, the bulkhead could be made from the same material, and get rid of that truck muffler on the back. Put something like whats on the dirt bikes.

On the Apex the headlight pod is very heavy, very high, and far forward. The muffler is also heavy and high up. A good deal of weight and complexity is in covers which have no purpose other than to hide unattractive parts like the muffler. A pair of lightweight mufflers like the R1 sportbike and a one piece hood are good places to start. The engines are low, centralized, and the last place weight matters.

 

[low slung]

How much more should a 4 stroke weight next to a 2 stroke...... Let's see, 2 cams, cam and crank gears with chain, valve springs, valves, oil pump, more aluminium in the head..... And some oil, but the two strokes have oil and oil pumps as well.

I'd say they should be able to keep it around 30 lbs if they worked hard at it.

I Read a while back that ski-doos 800R(pre E-TEC)was around 70lbs.Now add E-TEC and standard Electric start(ski-doo is making this standard now,end of recoil)the weight may get to 85-90lbs.The clean two-strokes are putting on the pounds but are still lighter than its four-stroke counterparts but the phazer engine may be close(remember,this powerplant puts out 160HP per litre,normal aspirated.And its a four-stroke).When you have a background in MOTO GP,Supercross,F1,the world is yours for engine tech.

 

[AKrider]

I recall the Nytro motor was a few pounds lighter than the Vector motor it was based on. Four stroke engines are heavy, no doubt about it when compared to a 2-stroke but I bet the the Yamaha 3-cylinder is lighter than the Suzuki 1100 twin. It would be interesting to see how it compares weight wise to the Rotax 1200.

Yamaha has a good thing going with how and where they mount their engines. The extra weight comes from the heavy stock battery, reverse gear, stock exhaust, steering system, skid-frames, big steel plates in the tunnel, the radiator, steel handlebars, and finally way too many body panels and covers.

The mountain sled forums on this site are a great place to see how much weight can be removed from a Yamaha. The problem is it quickly becomes very expensive and it seems that a lot of the Yamaha's become front heavy even with weight loss plans using a stock chassis. It is way easier and cheaper to remove weight off the back of the sled than it is the front.

I remember feeling the difference on my Vector when I installed a Boss seat and White Knuckle exhaust. The back end was lighter and the sled no longer felt as well balanced.