Who Else is playing catch up with their new Sidewinder and what are you doing different this time around?

[fatchance]

Find myself struggling with the fact that the Ultra Modded 2017 can't be easily matched with the purchase of the new 24" Winder. I fully understand what i like with the first rendition of the built Winder and honestly have no regrets with that build. That said I'm not sure what i would change. This Winder has been the perfect sled for me. Sure it has cost a bazillion bucks to get it right, but there's no getting around that aspect of it.

If you had to change anything what would it be? Not talking fixes to existing problems just plain upgrades.

 

[Doc Harley]

Find myself struggling with the fact that the Ultra Modded 2017 can't be matched with the purchase of the new 24" Winder. I fully understand what i like with the first rendition of the built Winder and honestly have no regrets with that build. That said what would you do differently? I'm not sure what i would change, this Winder is the perfect sled for me. Sure it has cost a bazillion bucks to get it right, but i just don't know what i would do differently with the new sled.

If you had to change anything what would it be? Not talking fixes to existing problems just plain upgrades.

Idk....I still really appreciated my stock winder, up to this point. There was zero pressure to be faster then others. Yet didn't get passed by anything, with a speedo ind 115mph. Tuned it, now its stuck trenching lines and doesn't mph much better. It will come along this year , and I've learned a lot along the way.
Talked to many guys and the Consensus seems to be, don't expect a tuned winder to go fast." Takes more than that.
With faster competition coming out the last couple years, as least ill be able to represent "Yamaha"

 

[fatchance]

JT not sure what you're getting at saying don't expect a tuned winder to go fast? My winder will rip your arms off on the trail and still represent on a 1/4 mile rip up against anything. Again just asking what you would do differently when tuning from start with unlimited budget. I am very satisfied with the performance of the first build and I'm sure many are. But again if you had to do it all over what would you change?

 

[Doc Harley]

But again if you had to do it all over what would you change?

Honestly, im looking for perfection, to achieve a specific goal. And I'm just not there yet.
I suppose I can answer that question after I get some testing done this year.

 

[number1kyster]

Mine is tuned with TD Max Spool 16. If I bought a new Winder, I would try the Hurricane SS tunes this time around. I’m not unhappy with my TD tunes. I just wouldn’t want to build the same sled twice. I’m already bored with the one I have.

 

[sideshowBob]

If I was starting with a brand new SW this would be my must do list.

-Hurricane SS stock muffler tune package
-clutching to match the tune
-align clutches
-BOP shaft saver
-DMC top gear bushing
-scratchers

That would be it for a must have list as with just the SS tune package you wouldn't need the AFR readout, data logging ect ect ect as there would be no need to monitor things as the sled would run flawlessly and would be a gas and go ride.

 

[Doc Harley]

If I was starting with a brand new SW this would be my must do list.

-Hurricane SS stock muffler tune package
-clutching to match the tune
-align clutches
-BOP shaft saver
-DMC top gear bushing
-scratchers

That would be it for a must have list as with just the SS tune package you wouldn't need the AFR readout, data logging ect ect ect as there would be no need to monitor things as the sled would run flawlessly and would be a gas and go ride.

I'm stuck between a stock muffler tune & balls out.
A lot can be done @ 260+/- hp levels.

 

[fatchance]

I'm stuck between a stock muffler tune & balls out.
A lot can be done @ 260+/- hp levels.

Right there with you! It is a very slippery slope! I'm with BOB on this one even though I have been procuring parts for the inevitable all out build which will eventually happen. However, I really wanted to just keep it stock for the first season, but I think it would be a let down power wise so the next best and easiest thing would be to go with the stock muffler tunes. You just have to consider once you change to the PM tunes you will be opening yourself up to a ton of mods and issues with fuel delivery which will bring on more mods. Just make sure you have plenty of time to make all the changes it will require.

 

[Doc Harley]

Right there with you! It is a very slippery slope! I'm with BOB on this one even though I have been procuring parts for the inevitable all out build which will eventually happen. However, I really wanted to just keep it stock for the first season, but I think it would be a let down power wise so the next best and easiest thing would be to go with the stock muffler tunes. You just have to consider once you change to the PM tunes you will be opening yourself up to a ton of mods and issues with fuel delivery which will bring on more mods. Just make sure you have plenty of time to make all the changes it will require.

Aren't we crazy?!?! Hahaha.... Love it.

 

[STAIN]

Fatchance, I was in your EXACT position last year with my 2022.
I had already had a 2017 with multiple tunes, shocks, skis etc.
With the knowledge of that sled in my head, I wanted to build my ultimate "power cruiser" and also see just how well I could make a Sidewinder go on a stock tune.
I wanted a sled to ride. I didn't want to chase boost leaks, octane or fool with clutching every day. No more modded mufflers to listen to or earplugs. I wanted a consistent trail performer that I could ride all day and feed it any octane fuel and then get up the next day and do it again.
I went with ---
1.5 track
While I was changing the track I went with Provost upper gear bushing, 24-50 gears and B.OP. upgraded bearing on left side.
Bar riser
I cut down my throttle body clamp barrels.
RX-1 primary clutch with 911 cover, Dalton weights, B-O secondary spring-- I had these parts in stock.
Hi-Torque rollers in the secondary,
Elka shock package front Accelerated Technologies.
All the above mods where done at 0 miles
I later added a set of skis and at the end of the year a mountain seat. I really like the seat....

Halfway through the year I made wholesale changes to my clutching with positive results.
Jury is out on the ski's
Not sure I would do the shocks again, I am getting close on those but not sure yet if they where worth the cash.

This year will be a 12 gallon tank, 240 SM tune, clutching to match and play with ski/skeg combo's
I just got the NS-1 gauge
I may try to do something with my roll over valve, but I have never had trouble with them on any of my four strokes. My sled goes in a heated garage every night unless at camp or on a trip.

I plan on keeping this sled for a while so I will keep improving as I see the need.

 

[Doc Harley]

Fatchance, I was in your EXACT position last year with my 2022.
I had already had a 2017 with multiple tunes, shocks, skis etc.
With the knowledge of that sled in my head, I wanted to build my ultimate "power cruiser" and also see just how well I could make a Sidewinder go on a stock tune.
I wanted a sled to ride. I didn't want to chase boost leaks, octane or fool with clutching every day. No more modded mufflers to listen to or earplugs. I wanted a consistent trail performer that I could ride all day and feed it any octane fuel and then get up the next day and do it again.
I went with ---
1.5 track
While I was changing the track I went with Provost upper gear bushing, 24-50 gears and B.OP. upgraded bearing on left side.
Bar riser
I cut down my throttle body clamp barrels.
RX-1 primary clutch with 911 cover, Dalton weights, B-O secondary spring-- I had these parts in stock.
Hi-Torque rollers in the secondary,
Elka shock package front Accelerated Technologies.
All the above mods where done at 0 miles
I later added a set of skis and at the end of the year a mountain seat. I really like the seat....

Halfway through the year I made wholesale changes to my clutching with positive results.
Jury is out on the ski's
Not sure I would do the shocks again, I am getting close on those but not sure yet if they where worth the cash.

This year will be a 12 gallon tank, 240 SM tune, clutching to match and play with ski/skeg combo's
I just got the NS-1 gauge
I may try to do something with my roll over valve, but I have never had trouble with them on any of my four strokes. My sled goes in a heated garage every night unless at camp or on a trip.

I plan on keeping this sled for a while so I will keep improving as I see the need.

I'm with that plan, stain. I am starting to believe the stock muffler tunes can achieve strong results with proper clutching & traction. I remember KnappAttack saying this for years.
The stronger PM tunes are causing us to dig deeper & deeper into the rabbit hole.
Traction being equal, running 192 studs ill get as close as I can on clutching (respectively), switch back and forth on tunes and verify results with dragy. And let the results speak for themselves.

 

[fatchance]

Sounds solid Stain. keep it simple. My biggest complaint with the big header tunes was not having access to good fuel when in Northern Maine and i refuse to lug around any type of octane boost with me. I always have the AFR in one the the windows on the IPad which is very easy to see at glance and I never hammer it for any distance unless I am confident in the fuel, but the thought of detonation is still always there.

Now these days you're going to pay for that same Data considering the AEM O2 sensor will run you close to $500 and DATA logging has gone up like everything else in the world. I'm still sure the SS SM Tune is still pushing the envelope on the 270HP tune when on 91 octane so I will most likely pony up for them once again and I'll have them there for future power upgrades. The one thing that may not be on everybody's radar that is literally in the works is the Viney Fab Intercooler that I will be adding before this sled hits the snow.

As for clutching I had the stock primary working awesome, but the thing is a ticking time bomb as far as I'm concerned. I have yet to blow a belt with the TAPP in my 17" so I had to go back to the till for another this time around. Not to mention the rattling bucket of bolts is just plain unacceptable on a $20k sled! Probly start with a 41/ 37 Dalton with a Blue/Silver spring instead of my favorite Black Lime. Should be able to get just about the same pressure with enough wrap anyway.

 

[Doc Harley]

Vinny fab...tell more?!?! Lol
I've got a 41/37 to try. Don't know what to do with it. Lol. Oh well ..

 

[Turboflash]

Idk....I still really appreciated my stock winder, up to this point. There was zero pressure to be faster then others. Yet didn't get passed by anything, with a speedo ind 115mph. Tuned it, now its stuck trenching lines and doesn't mph much better. It will come along this year , and I've learned a lot along the way.
Talked to many guys and the Consensus seems to be, don't expect a tuned winder to go fast." Takes more than that.
With faster competition coming out the last couple years, as least ill be able to represent "Yamaha"

Not sure what you mean by "trenching lines and doesn't mph much better?" It's all about traction, clutching, gearing. If I'm not mistaken, you have now geared up to 21/38? Compared to stock 21/41 (Winder) or 24/50 (Cat), 21/38 will be allot better (1000', 1/4 mile?), assuming decent traction, especially on a tuned sled w right clutching. IMO, have to shift up fast to avoid big trenching, and have enough gear to keep pulling. I think you'll find out what a big difference there is. Depending on how big of a tune there is, even more gearing will probably ET better in 1000/1250' (assuming traction from the dig). Testing, testing, testing with a reliable instrument is the only way to find out.

 

[fatchance]

Vinny fab...tell more?!?! Lol
I've got a 41/37 to try. Don't know what to do with it. Lol. Oh well ..
View attachment 173921

I say 41/37 because I have had good success with it in the past, but thought the 45/33 just did a better job with more power. It just really gives you the extra belt squeeze when at speed on the lake and when on trail riding I'm usually into the finish angle to get good backshift out of it. The steep start angle get's you out of the hole quick and a good pull out of the apex of the twisties. I have about 5 Helix sitting on the shelf, but that's where i'll start. As far as the intercooler goes this is a great safeguard against detonation. Keep cold air running through the system instead of hot air.

You want Put a old Cat torsion spring in there with that Helix. White, Green and Red/White work well on the smaller tunes. Many have had success with the Black/Orange Dalton Yami spring, but i just can't top the torsion springs with it. Like I already stated the Black/Lime is hard to beat if you are on the bigger tunes so if you plan on running the SS 270 SM tune it'll work just fine and you can use less wrap on the smaller tunes if you are making heat or pulling the belt through the primary.