Why was "08 Nytro Sub frame" LOCKED

[Sled Dog]

I think a lot of threads are closed to soon when it comes to anything negative towards a yami product. They do make good products I agree, but they are not perfect and have their problems like any other machine built by man. That said the people posting the problem with the product should have taken it to his or her dealer first and had the problem registered with yamaha so their is a record of the problem. When yamaha gets lots of records for the same problem they will fix it and usually at no cost to the consumer if it is in fact deemed a problem. Known problems that has been with yamaha sleds for years like their skis should have been addressed and were not and I am sure they know about that problem. So I guess they do ignore some problems no matter how much they are told. On the skis though that can be said for all the other manufacturers as well. Stock skis do the job just not as well as aftermarket ones. So is it a problem?

 

[TurboJamie]

Here is a scenario and I am not sure how to answer it etc.. Just something that came up with me and well had I not bitched as much as I did I don't know where I would have ended up.

Took my sled with 200 miles in for bent front end, we were one of the first they saw last winter. Was told no warranty it was my fault. I call BS as it was a no impact damage. So we fight, now I finally got mine replaced under warranty after the frame came off back order. However had they not looked after it I would have had to pay for the subframe. Now if they decide to warranty all of them, which were still waiting to find out then, what do the guys whom had to pay do? Will they be reimbursed or are they out on their own?

Its a tough situation to be in forsure being the consumer and also yamaha as if they warranty one they they admit a problem and should warranty all. As in my case they fixed mine so should all not be entitled to a fix if no impact is noted?

 

[Snoxracer242]

TurboJamie

So when they fixed yours was it update with the new sub frame?

On a side note:
If Yamaha didn't think that they had a problem they wouldn't of had a 09 UPDATED sub frame bolted to a pedestal at Hay Days, showing any NEW potental buyers, "Hey we fixed the problem were all good now!" But screw the people that committed to a new model.

And whose post was it that said, "DON'T BUY A FIRST YEAR MODEL" Boy if we all did that there'd never be a new model then, would there! Duh? So you'd think that since we do buy first year models and we work out all the bugs for you second year buyers, would you think you'd take care of your first year buyers? Their the ones keeping things going, because like I said before, if it wasn't for us FIRST YEAR BUYERS, you second year buyers wouldn't ever be!

Anyway Thanks,

Dustin

 

[gormleyflyer2002]

so, your saying they had a stand alone display showing the new sub frame only.....?......? .....

deny deny deny deny

TurboJamie

So when they fixed yours was it update with the new sub frame?

On a side note:
If Yamaha didn't think that they had a problem they wouldn't of had a 09 UPDATED sub frame bolted to a pedestal at Hay Days, showing any NEW potental buyers, "Hey we fixed the problem were all good now!" But screw the people that committed to a new model.

And whose post was it that said, "DON'T BUY A FIRST YEAR MODEL" Boy if we all did that there'd never be a new model then, would there! Duh? So you'd think that since we do buy first year models and we work out all the bugs for you second year buyers, would you think you'd take care of your first year buyers? Their the ones keeping things going, because like I said before, if it wasn't for us FIRST YEAR BUYERS, you second year buyers wouldn't ever be!

Anyway Thanks,

Dustin

 

[Snoxracer242]

Yes that is correct, they had a updated sub frame there, showing all the differneces.

 

[Port-Parts]

Here's my two cents as an avid snowmobiler and parts manager at a high volume Yamaha dealership regarding the subframe issue Turbojamie repeatedly has brought up lately . First off as a dealership we have sold more than 25 Nytro models and have not had anyone come in with their sled complaining of a bent front subframe with no impact. I do know of one bent subframe that did have an extreme impact. I personally have 1400 miles on mine and it is fine - I did replace the ball joints at around 900 miles as they were loose. My sled was one of two that we addressed ball joints on last season. Could there be some bad subframes out there - sure but the amount of them being brought in to dealers at this point is very, very small. I think TurboJamie's posts strike a nerve with some people (including me) as when you read them it makes it sound like all Nytro's are having these issues - which doesn't appear to be the case from my view. Yamaha gathers service info from what the dealers report and from warranty claims. When an item like the idler wheels delaminating on the 06 sleds happens and a dealer like us is sending in 5-10 warranty claims a week during the early part of the season a red flag goes up and the situation gets addressed but this whole subframe deal seems very, very limited and I wouldn't expect any widespread response from Yamaha when they have such limited data to go on. Do you honestly think dealers/reps would have such limited knowledge about this if the majority of the sleds sold were brought in to dealers requiring repair? I don't think so. This situation somewhat reminds me of the posts regarding the 07 Phazer rear suspension linkages breaking in 07 and last season those posts seem to went away. The small amount of ones that broke got fixed and the rest seem to be just fine. What bugs me with forum issues like this is it makes alot of people afraid to ride their sleds or enjoy the sport in the manner it should be which is why I am sure the site administrators frown upon those type of posts and topics get locked.

 

[ShootToThrill]

^^^What he said^^^

 

[1CrazySledder]

Very nicely said.

I think the question here has been well answered.

Bottom line is use the search option before you post your issue. ( WHICH IS IN THE SITE POSTING RULES ) Read those threads that come up in your search, then perhaps comment. Otherwise, make a new thread. Keep the personal feeling out of it.
If it is a major issue, take it to the dealership so it can get documented.

Hopefully, now there will be no more replies in this thread on this Nytro.
The topic has been answered.
Otherwise, it will be locked or deleted all together.

 

[TurboJamie]

Here's my two cents as an avid snowmobiler and parts manager at a high volume Yamaha dealership regarding the subframe issue Turbojamie repeatedly has brought up lately . First off as a dealership we have sold more than 25 Nytro models and have not had anyone come in with their sled complaining of a bent front subframe with no impact. I do know of one bent subframe that did have an extreme impact. I personally have 1400 miles on mine and it is fine - I did replace the ball joints at around 900 miles as they were loose. My sled was one of two that we addressed ball joints on last season. Could there be some bad subframes out there - sure but the amount of them being brought in to dealers at this point is very, very small. I think TurboJamie's posts strike a nerve with some people (including me) as when you read them it makes it sound like all Nytro's are having these issues - which doesn't appear to be the case from my view. Yamaha gathers service info from what the dealers report and from warranty claims. When an item like the idler wheels delaminating on the 06 sleds happens and a dealer like us is sending in 5-10 warranty claims a week during the early part of the season a red flag goes up and the situation gets addressed but this whole subframe deal seems very, very limited and I wouldn't expect any widespread response from Yamaha when they have such limited data to go on. Do you honestly think dealers/reps would have such limited knowledge about this if the majority of the sleds sold were brought in to dealers requiring repair? I don't think so. This situation somewhat reminds me of the posts regarding the 07 Phazer rear suspension linkages breaking in 07 and last season those posts seem to went away. The small amount of ones that broke got fixed and the rest seem to be just fine. What bugs me with forum issues like this is it makes alot of people afraid to ride their sleds or enjoy the sport in the manner it should be which is why I am sure the site administrators frown upon those type of posts and topics get locked.

The 3 nytros we purchased last season all bent the front ends to some degree and as I said only being trail ridden not ditch banged or snow crossed etc. None were of any impact. This was my huge argument when the originally denided they would fix my machine. My brother in laws which was also bent we straightened because yamaha would not do anything for his and my fathers we sold bent to the next guy whom complained and took it back to the dealer. I am being straight up when I said I counted at least 4 others on the trail last season that were bent when we just happened to check them / meet with the riders at fuel stops etc... I kept riding my machine with the bent front end until the reps finally saw how bad it was and figured it could possibly be a liability problem. I do not think they are all bad perhapse a batch of them are? I am not sure at this point anymore as some guys say they have beaten the piss out of theirs with no troubles when I know for a fact I have not even come close to beating that machine, and not even close to beating it how I have even my own apex. I do beleive there is a problem with them in one way shape or form and it maybe just a small percentage of them. Perhapse a certin situation where it happens I don't know. I just hope they do fix the machine because the engine is awesome in them.

I beleive your point about people riding them without problem could be a little skew and here is why you working at a dealership already know that at least 60% of sledders have no clue about anything mechanical on their machine, so until it is pointed out to them they have no idea. I encourage every single person out there to go measure theirs and see if it is straight or not. Most guys don't know until they ask or don't know until you show them.

Our dealership and feel free to contact them Markham Mower even the owner bent his nytro on the first ride out and couldn't beleive it when I showed him because we were back and fourth togeather over trying to fix the handling. He tried to help out best he could with it.

Here is the way I checked mine; I enocourage others to so we can see if it is a big problem or a little one. If we are going to make this a productive learning process for people here is the procedure to check it and lets gather some data.

As you can see below the difference to the center of the balljoint is what we are looking at on the tape measure. That will tell you if your spindle is tilted back from the facotry position.

Also keep in mind that yamaha will try to deny you warranty with anything other then aftermarket on the front end, that includes skis, in my case the cans on the shocks from hygear were suspect for the problem etc.. so just be forewarned if you get denied it could be because of skis, shocks changes etc...

 

[NB-NYTRO]

all it takes is a bad wash out that yanks your skis one way or the other and bam you got a bent sub-frame on the 08 sled.

 

[lucky_7]

[quote="TurboJamieI beleive your point about people riding them without problem could be a little skew and here is why you working at a dealership already know that at least 60% of sledders have no clue about anything mechanical on their machine, so until it is pointed out to them they have no idea. I encourage every single person out there to go measure theirs and see if it is straight or not. Most guys don't know until they ask or don't know until you show them.

[/quote]

I will say that I didn't have any clue that mine was bent until the dealership pointed it out to me.

 

[yamy07]

Port Parts Wrote

"Here's my two cents as an avid snowmobiler and parts manager at a high volume Yamaha dealership regarding the subframe issue Turbojamie repeatedly has brought up lately . First off as a dealership we have sold more than 25 Nytro models and have not had anyone come in with their sled complaining of a bent front subframe with no impact."

While I have no doubt what you wrote was true At your dealership, I know at my local dealer there were 6 Nytros with bent subframes waiting for the Yamaha rep to look at, not including mine which is also bent. A Yamaha rep that I spoke to regarding this told me they were checking to see if all the bent ones were from a particular production run. I don't know what became of that, but I do know they replaced one ( a friend of mine's) under warranty. They never looked at mine, I was told to wait til fall for a "fix".
I'm not complaining, or trying to start something that gets another thread locked. I believe Yamaha (with my dealers help) will make things right. It just gets annoying with the posts that go "I pound mine & it's not bent" or "I've never seen that before". That seems to be the Official Yamaha party line.
I remember when the first posts about bent frontends appeared on here - everyone pounced on them and either basically flamed them,called them liars or posers from Ski-Doo trying to stir the pot. Everytime someone makes a legitimate request for more information, somebody has to pipe in with "It hasn't happened to mine -therefore there's no problem". Whether it's a bent subframe or handwarmers that don't warm. When there's a number of people complaining about something - maybe there's something to it. If your happy with yours, count yourself lucky and don't question the authenticity of someone else's problems. That's what ends up having these threads locked. IMO

 

[Crewchief47]

That seems to be the Official Yamaha party line.

I think you could safely change that to 'Official Corporate party line'. Corporate being most large companies. They would tell any customer that calls CS that it's the first time they've heard of it. I would think the reason for this mostly boils down to legal issues.

 

[Rx1M5]

You can deny it all you want but mine is also bent and so is my buddies both mountain versions of the Nytro. This brings us back to the point that if it was such great a product in 08 why did they reinforce it for 09?? My dealer is working on it right now with Yamaha so at the current time I'm not slagging anybody but if they turn their back on me and everyone I am aware of who has a bent frame you can expect there is going to be an Anti-Yamaha backlash and locking posts isn't going to make it go away.

I agree with the guy who said as a first year buyer you need to feel you will be looked after if there is an issue otherwise there will be no first year buyers, myself included. Oh ya my ball joints are also done and I have less than 700 miles.

Watch the Yamaha advertising videos and those guys are pounding the sleds way harder than I do. How do they expect people are riding these things. How many Deltabox failures have you ever heard about, not too many, clearly the 08 Nytros are a great sled but they just weren't quite there yet. Why can't they just admit it??


Rx1M5

 

[TurboJamie]

I beleive that admitting to a problem opens up the liability issue then they could be at risk of lawsuit retalliation from customers. If they play dumb then it never really receives any kind of attention from the media etc.. As said all corporations play dumb when you talk to them about problems, which is why I feel its so importatant we can hash these issues out here online togeather and with big brother watching.