Why?

[sideshowBob]

Justinator & sideshowbob, I'm a huge fan of the gap ram air. Justin, your pics give it so much merit. It's a thing of beauty.
The only thing you guys left out, is the fact that one or both are fully vented.

My SW has had the full Mo-Flow vent kit installed since new.

 

[earthling]

Justinator & sideshowbob, I'm a huge fan of the gap ram air. Justin, your pics give it so much merit. It's a thing of beauty.
The only thing you guys left out, is the fact that one or both are fully vented.
So, if one decides to go in this direction, they would need to commit to optional venting to ensure cold air to clutches.
I'm not completely opposed to that. If I could find a way to do it in keeping the sled looking completely molested.
I sure hope that makes sense.
Definitely up for review....

There is plenty of other ways for cold air to get to the clutches. When air comes in through any of the other openings it does not 'heat up' as air has terrible thermal characteristics, any stagnant air does but at speed, not so much. That is why insulation efficiency is primarily dictated by how much air it can entrap (e.g. down feathers vs spun polyester).

Right, I tested the stock box without the filter and no gain, then took off the lid just for a quick test and then of course its breathing hotter air and no gain that way either.

Biggest gain was sticking the filter right out the front vent and letting it grab that cold air, keeping in mind that was using the Hurricane K&N filter which has a nice velocity stack built into it. This was pre closed loop, and it ran too lean to be able to run it that way, it was ugly but it works.

I fully believe that the stock airbox would be a good piece if hat had a larger velocity stack built into it as it runs a true cold air to it, BUT it is also draws from a low pressure area in that its behind the windshield. There's a reason the speed run and drag race sleds run BIG velocity stacks right out the hood! They flat out work ramming as much COLD air as possible into the turbo inlet. It's free HP, but on a trail sled its ugly and would suck in snow and snow dust.

Maybe just a simple out of the hood intake with frogskinz like the mountain guys use would be just as well, but myself I think them to be ugly as crap as well. Fine for the mountain guys as they are always submarining in the deep anyway.

The stock airbox would be a pretty good solution if they smoothed out the air paths. The humps that accommodate various hoses and tubes create pinch points for the system. There humps are of course there for a reason but they are oversized. The two air inlets in the cowl by the rider are both decent sized (1.9" I believe) but the passages through the airbox get convoluted causing all kinds of turbulence, likely erasing the benefit of the twin intakes.

 

[KnappAttack]

Mike, do you think the GAP intake with cap installed does this?
Could you just block the stock intakes to the area behind the windshield and let it draw from the stock intake cold air side?
Also, if you are running a stock muffler tune with this GAP intake, would your tune provider be able to tweak your tune to run with the GAP intake?
Or is it not even worth the effort for the trail rider....

I haven't tried the GAP intake to know that answer, but I would only guess with the ram effect it would run lean like my filter out the front of the hood did without closed loop at the time I tested that.

Tuners are not going to write a tune for every little thing we change on these sleds and why they have closed loop now. It will adjust accordingly until the injectors run out of duty cycle, which some like myself and sideshowBob has found thru data logging and closed loop. We keep ramming air in and run bigger mufflers and you'll find the limits at some point. The tunes were designed around certain mufflers and intakes, changing any of it requires a different tune to run optimally. The problem is people get greedy and start adding more and more. This is the reason these engines will go lean and deto. Stock muffler tunes are just that, designed to run stock mufflers and the intakes the tuners designate for them, going beyond that point and they will run outside the parameters they were designed for, in other words doing that and you're on your own. This is why data logging and closed loop is invaluable at that point so the user can see the AF ratio and percentage of fuel being added or subtracted.

For the average trail guy I'd stick with what the tuner designed the tune for and quit getting greedy. Getting greedy requires closed loop, data logging and a good understanding of boost, how it all works together and what it all means.

 

[Doc Harley]

My SW has had the full Mo-Flow vent kit installed since new.

So, my honest question is, how would the belt temps be if you never added those vents?

I haven't tried the GAP intake to know that answer, but I would only guess with the ram effect it would run lean like my filter out the front of the hood did without closed loop at the time I tested that.

Tuners are not going to write a tune for every little thing we change on these sleds and why they have closed loop now. It will adjust accordingly until the injectors run out of duty cycle, which some like myself and sideshowBob has found thru data logging and closed loop. We keep ramming air in and run bigger mufflers and you'll find the limits at some point. The tunes were designed around certain mufflers and intakes, changing any of it requires a different tune to run optimally. The problem is people get greedy and start adding more and more. This is the reason these engines will go lean and deto. Stock muffler tunes are just that, designed to run stock mufflers and the intakes the tuners designate for them, going beyond that point and they will run outside the parameters they were designed for, in other words doing that and you're on your own. This is why data logging and closed loop is invaluable at that point so the user can see the AF ratio and percentage of fuel being added or subtracted.

For the average trail guy I'd stick with what the tuner designed the tune for and quit getting greedy. Getting greedy requires closed loop, data logging and a good understanding of boost, how it all works together and what it all means.

in recently adding cold air kit to my sled I placed a call to TD. They explained; pm muffler tunes there is no need for an updated map. So it's kind of my opinion That they are running the pm tune a little on the fat side of things, and the cold air kit brings everything into acceptable Parameters.
Note: Please notice I specifically said PM tunes.

 

[justinator]

Justinator & sideshowbob, I'm a huge fan of the gap ram air. Justin, your pics give it so much merit. It's a thing of beauty.
The only thing you guys left out, is the fact that one or both are fully vented.
So, if one decides to go in this direction, they would need to commit to optional venting to ensure cold air to clutches.
I'm not completely opposed to that. If I could find a way to do it in keeping the sled looking completely molested.
I sure hope that makes sense.
Definitely up for review....

All you need is the front lower moflow vents that are behind the a-arms. I like the ones that go by the knees at well but you get plenty of airflow with just the lower ones and they are stealthy. Dont know they are there unless you are looking for them.

 

[justinator]

So, my honest question is, how would the belt temps be if you never added those vents?

in recently adding cold air kit to my sled I placed a call to TD. They explained; pm muffler tunes there is no need for an updated map. So it's kind of my opinion That they are running the pm tune a little on the fat side of things, and the cold air kit brings everything into acceptable Parameters.
Note: Please notice I specifically said PM tunes.

Yes both hurricane and tds pm tunes are cold air intake ready, they have both said the tunes are good to go with the gap intake. Still a good idea to have a watchful eye in my opinion. A big tune with big exhaust, or header or any certain hardware changes may push things on the outside edge of what they have for “room “ in the tune. Sideshowbob is a good example, 300 tune with header and gap intake and he needs more fuel pressure than factory to be ideal. Id guess smaller tunes or lower flowing setups( no header ) would be fine but will have to test and see

 

[STAIN]

The problem is people get greedy and start adding more and more.

And the more we sit here reading, the more we think we need. I am guilty of this, especially this time of year, when riding season is so close and there is nothing else to really do. My wallet takes a beating in these few months between end of summer and first rideable snow.

For the average trail guy I'd stick with what the tuner designed the tune for and quit getting greedy.

I hear you here. The older I get, the more of a TRAIL guy I become. I have no time to sit on the lake or field anymore.
It seems the more things you add, the more things you need to add or become more aware of.

 

[fatchance]

"And the more we sit here reading, the more we think we need. I am guilty of this, especially this time of year"

I hear you here. The older I get, the more of a TRAIL guy I become. I have no time to sit on the lake or field anymore.
It seems the more things you add, the more things you need to add or become more aware of.

It's the turbo boost addiction and we all need an intervention! The more we get the more we want.

 

[Doc Harley]

All you need is the front lower moflow vents that are behind the a-arms. I like the ones that go by the knees at well but you get plenty of airflow with just the lower ones and they are stealthy. Dont know they are there unless you are looking for them.

Do you have any pics, you can share?

 

[justinator]

Do you have any pics, you can share?

 

[Doc Harley]

That's just perfect, justin. I assume you drill the belt guard out? Are you using the rear one as well? Ill have to see how I can get something in blue. I just checked Flo doesn't offer in blue.

 

[justinator]

Yes I have a precision belly pan protector and I drilled a bunch of holes in it to allow air through the guard along with whatever will flow around it.

 

[Fast]

View attachment 174184

Will that suck water in when we hit an open stretch and spin the belt sinking the sled?

 

[fatchance]

Those MoFlow vents are hydrophobic. No problem there

 

[justinator]

Will that suck water in when we hit an open stretch and spin the belt sinking the sled?

No it has a water repellent prefilter on the inside. Can be ordered with and without prefilter.