LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
It seems to me that turbos are popular on diesels, whereas superchargers are popular on gas. A good drive won't put that kind of stress on the crank - I'm not talking about those crazy up-top mounted things that go through the hoods of muscle cars, but those that are used by a lot of car OEM's.
Though I definitely agree about the backfire issue. These carb'd engines do have a tendency to do that once in a while - I wouldn't want to have half my engine flying off just because its running out of gas.... or because the TORS kicked in, or the white wire in the nose gets shorted, or.....
Though I definitely agree about the backfire issue. These carb'd engines do have a tendency to do that once in a while - I wouldn't want to have half my engine flying off just because its running out of gas.... or because the TORS kicked in, or the white wire in the nose gets shorted, or.....
NOS2stage
Newbie
jtssrx said:
john weedlocks......lol
neonphil
Expert
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Let us know the outcome between the two. Reliability, effectiveness, etc. Instead of arguing, use a supercharger and a turbo on the same sled. Compare costs, reliability, and horsepower.
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
I figured this might spark some controversy between the turbo loyal and those (like me) still on the fence.
Frankly, I don't really have a preference. I like the supercharger due to it's compact size and ease of installation.
The turbo has proven itself to be a great RX-1 modification (perhaps the best) but if there is something even better out there..... bring it on!
Sure I'm happy with the turbo on my hoped up Powerstoke but I would bet someone here has a Paxton supercharger on their car or truck? What do you think of it?
Frosty
Frankly, I don't really have a preference. I like the supercharger due to it's compact size and ease of installation.
The turbo has proven itself to be a great RX-1 modification (perhaps the best) but if there is something even better out there..... bring it on!
Sure I'm happy with the turbo on my hoped up Powerstoke but I would bet someone here has a Paxton supercharger on their car or truck? What do you think of it?
Frosty
Silverbullet
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I like the idea of a supercharger for a couple of reasons. First you can keep the stock exhaust (very important if you do allot of trail riding) and secondly you don't have the tremendous heat build up like you get from a front mounted turbos 
But I don't see how the superchargers are going to compete with the turbos as far as pure horsepower numbers go 
And it's BS if anyone thinks that they can get over 200 HP on pump gas without major engine mods.
But I don't see how the superchargers are going to compete with the turbos as far as pure horsepower numbers go And it's BS if anyone thinks that they can get over 200 HP on pump gas without major engine mods. Pinball Wizzard
Pro
As far as mtn riding goes I can,t see the down side of a supercharger and as soon as I put the $$$ together there will be one on mine.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
- Messages
- 5,366
- Location
- Menno, SD
- Website
- www.ulmerracing.com
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 Yamaha SR Viper LTX, 2014 Yamaha SR Viper RTX SE, 2015 Yamaha SR Viper MTX SE 162 (turbo), 2015 Yamaha SR Viper MTX SE 153
- LOCATION
- Menno, SD
- WEBSITE
- www.ulmerracing.com
Silverbullet, the front mount turbos even with a gutted stock exhaust are just as quiet as a stock system, that's the beauty of it, unless they know you could pull up beside someone and blow their doors off without them having a clue! Supercharger or turbocharger, either one is going to bring alot of people alot of fun times!
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
My vote goes to the turbo. Modern turbochargers have very minimal turbo lag and ball bearing turbos have absolutely no lag.
When it comes to getting maximum output from minimal cubic inches, nothing beats a turbo!
Hebi
When it comes to getting maximum output from minimal cubic inches, nothing beats a turbo!
Hebi
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Frostbite, seven or eight years ago a friend of mine put a Paxton on his Ford 3/4 ton with a 460. No problems, except for some hookup.
nhrxrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I see everyone talking about which is better, but I don't see anyone talking about WHEN or WHERE they are better. I don't think one is any better than the other, it just depends on where you are using the sled. Turbos have their places...but you have to compensate for turbo lag. Either one properly set up will make as much HP as the other. That graph above is B.S. If the SC isn't making as much power as a turbo, the wrong SC is being used. They both also take power to run. If SCs didn't make power, you wouldn't see them on every top fuel drag car out there, you'd see turbos instead. Some pure drag cars are experimenting with turbos, but they are the exception, not the rule.
For drag racing SCs are great. The power is right there when you want it. For the trail (similar to road racing a car), turbos are great. You don't see many SCs on a rally car, and you don't see turbos on many drag cars (except the compact car guys). Turbos work great with trail sleds the same way they work great for rally cars. When you are on the throttle the turbo spools up. You let off for a corner and the turbo is still spinning fast, making boost, and its there ready when you hit the throttle again. That overcomes the lag issue. In that sense, a turbo will actually make more power than a SC, because with a SC, the drive will slow down as the engine does through a corner, losing boost. That boost won't be there when you need it, but more boost will be created as the engine speed rises.
I'll make an example using imaginary numbers. With a turbo sled, you go down a straight and had 10,000 RPM 25 PSI boost by the end. You let off the throttle for the corner, and the engine drops to 3,000 RPM, but the turbo didn't slow down completely, and you still have 18PSI boost when you come out of the corner, giving you a hell of a kick when you nail the throttle.
You take the same corner with a SC, and enter it with 10,000 RPMs and 25 PSI. The engine drops to 3,000 RPM, directly causing the SC to drop speed, so you come out of the corner at 3,000 RPM, and only maybe 5 or 10 PSI boost. That hurts your exit speed.
On a drag strip, the engine is staying at speed the whole way, so the boost with a SC will always be there.
So it all depends on where you are using your sled, and HOW you will be using it. And by the way, check many Detroit Diesels, and you'll see a supercharger. I have one here in my shop from a 3-73 Detroit that was in a log skidder. Some even used a supercharger AND a turbo for even more boost!!! But diesels fall more into my rally car explanation. You rev the engine up to 2,500 or 2,700 RPMs then let off to shift, allowing the revs to drop to 1,200 when you get back on the throttle. The turbo is still creating boost, so you have more power when you push the throttle again. That keeps the power level up on the engine during shifting.
Jim
For drag racing SCs are great. The power is right there when you want it. For the trail (similar to road racing a car), turbos are great. You don't see many SCs on a rally car, and you don't see turbos on many drag cars (except the compact car guys). Turbos work great with trail sleds the same way they work great for rally cars. When you are on the throttle the turbo spools up. You let off for a corner and the turbo is still spinning fast, making boost, and its there ready when you hit the throttle again. That overcomes the lag issue. In that sense, a turbo will actually make more power than a SC, because with a SC, the drive will slow down as the engine does through a corner, losing boost. That boost won't be there when you need it, but more boost will be created as the engine speed rises.
I'll make an example using imaginary numbers. With a turbo sled, you go down a straight and had 10,000 RPM 25 PSI boost by the end. You let off the throttle for the corner, and the engine drops to 3,000 RPM, but the turbo didn't slow down completely, and you still have 18PSI boost when you come out of the corner, giving you a hell of a kick when you nail the throttle.
You take the same corner with a SC, and enter it with 10,000 RPMs and 25 PSI. The engine drops to 3,000 RPM, directly causing the SC to drop speed, so you come out of the corner at 3,000 RPM, and only maybe 5 or 10 PSI boost. That hurts your exit speed.
On a drag strip, the engine is staying at speed the whole way, so the boost with a SC will always be there.
So it all depends on where you are using your sled, and HOW you will be using it. And by the way, check many Detroit Diesels, and you'll see a supercharger. I have one here in my shop from a 3-73 Detroit that was in a log skidder. Some even used a supercharger AND a turbo for even more boost!!! But diesels fall more into my rally car explanation. You rev the engine up to 2,500 or 2,700 RPMs then let off to shift, allowing the revs to drop to 1,200 when you get back on the throttle. The turbo is still creating boost, so you have more power when you push the throttle again. That keeps the power level up on the engine during shifting.
Jim
Jonny Rocket
TY 4 Stroke Guru
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Messages
- 766
- Age
- 51
- Location
- Colville, Washington
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2008 MXC boosted Nitro
After thinking about it, I feel one other benefit to the turbo is you can run on 5#'s of boost which puts less strain on the motor. Then, when you want it, flip the switch and BAM! 10#'s, or whatever you set it for. With the SC, you don't have that.
J.
J.
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
Nice to see you J.
I understand turbos make engines more or less immune from the power robbing effects casued by elevation changes. Do superchargers provide any benefit in this area?
If not, than why would a company like MOUNTAIN performance be promoting superchargers when they are already selling turbos? Is it merely marketing or is there an overriding reason they think superchargers make more sense for mountain applications?
Remember in late 03 early 04 when everyone else (Bender, CPR, ect)went with turbos from the git go MPI had a semi successful attempt at a supercharger. I think they may have learned a lot from their attempt and are now working to perfect it. I guess we'll see how it all works out shortly.
Frosty
I understand turbos make engines more or less immune from the power robbing effects casued by elevation changes. Do superchargers provide any benefit in this area?
If not, than why would a company like MOUNTAIN performance be promoting superchargers when they are already selling turbos? Is it merely marketing or is there an overriding reason they think superchargers make more sense for mountain applications?
Remember in late 03 early 04 when everyone else (Bender, CPR, ect)went with turbos from the git go MPI had a semi successful attempt at a supercharger. I think they may have learned a lot from their attempt and are now working to perfect it. I guess we'll see how it all works out shortly.
Frosty
NOS2stage: No that one has lag to. The MC 4 changed that.
nhrxrider said:
Just as a point of reference, those Detroit Diesels, 53, 71 and 92 series, with superchargers are 2-stroke and require the supercharger to push out the exhaust and fill the combustion chamber. The "scavenging" effect we see on our 2-stroke snowmobiles just doesn't provide enough air for a diesel to operate, hence the requirement for a compressed air intake charge.
My company used those Detroits to power the equipment we produced almost exclusively through the 80's. Today, we're using 4-stroke Deere or Cummins engines for the same horsepower requirements. I'm betting the OEM that produces that log skidder is doing the same.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming... :wink:
Similar threads
