Will supercharging surpass turbo as best power enhancement?

[Silverbullet]

 

[rupprider]

Chevy, so there! As a frustrated mechanical engineering student I have to side with TurboMike on the heat issue. I personally thought it was one of the hardest concepts to grasp in thermodynamics classes. Peace RR

 

[nhrxrider]

True, heat doesn't disapear, but have you ever looked at a turbo after a hard run? Its glowing red. It absorbs the heat, allowing the exhaust gas temps to drop. This is because of the restriction. If there was no restriction, then the exhaust would be almost the same temp after the turbo as before, and the turbo wouldn't get nearly as hot since they are cooled by either water or oil or both these days.

Jim

 

[race24x]

OK Mike I was with you till the ford thing now I am jumpin ship LOL My buddy has a Mustang Ford Motorsport racing block 4 bolt main 302 stroked out to 347 alum heads special intake F 1 supercharger with intercooler done by Larocca out of NJ 667 HP at the rear wheel I drove it it rocks I have 2 Z28s I dont have the money to make one go faster than his but all it takes is a crap load of money to make any of them go fast. Personally I use my Hayabusa and I would like to add the NXT turbo I can get 500 HP at the rear wheel.He thinks he can beat me now I dont know we will see next year. I can say one thing I am not impressed by Super chargers so far he keeps blowing belts when it goes to full boost and you shift. Larocca didnt fix it either. He is going to install solid motor mounts and make a braket to the frame to hold the Supercharger straight.

 

[Turbo50Mike]

I know LaRocca - His shop is 1/2 mile from Englishtown. I did some dyno-day shootout's at his shop a few times.

The ProChargers have that problem it seems when they start making serious power/boost. I don't know if the solid mounts will clear up the problem. I think (if he doesn't have it already) he may want a billet bracket for the charger.

Be careful tying the charger to the frame, if you don't have legs from the cage up to the front frame rails, there may be some deflection between the frame and the motor, and it may aggrivate the problem.
He may also want (but probably has it already) a cog setup - The belt shouldn't slip on that, but that can also be a problem because cogs are TOTALLY unforgiving.

Sounds like your friend is making really good power.

Actually, if he's got non-solid mounts, and the intercooler is securely fastened, it could be the intercooler piping that is causing the charger to flex when the motor torques.

670 hp, probably good for a 9.7 or so in the 1/4 at mid 140's. So if you can get the Busa in that ballpark, all you'd need is a small shot of NOS to get out infront of him...

MJB

 

[spray25]

The "Lag" thing is an old and tired argument. Those who have a PROPERLY tuned turbo klnow how old it is.

If it takes you 12 hours to install a turbo (without head gasket) then you are slow.

 

[Tork]

Interesting reading, BUT

AA fuel dragster, 4 seconds 310 MPH and they dont do it with a turbo.

 

[race24x]

He doesnt have the cogged system but I will through this info his way. Kind of makes sensa about the intercooler now that you mention it. My Busa should run 9.9 stock but I wil have to see I did the small airbox mod an exhaust and a powercommander so hopefully 9.9 is about right. Some gearing and clutch mods should improve on that alot. Biggest thing is we only have 1/8th mile drag strips around here.

 

[jtssrx]

spray25: Your comments on the lag thing being old are old. Stop witht eh properly tuned crap. Turbos have lag super chargers do not. Super chargers use HP to make HP turbos do not.

Pick your poison Lag or loose of HP to make Hp and move on.

Let me ask you Ray if you didn't care about the Lag question then why are you always making comments when someone says turbos have lag???????

 

[spray25]

Jason,

Why do I comment? Because people like you spew misinformation. Turbos do in fact have lag, however, if it is setup properly it is so minimal that it is almost unmeasurable by a layman. There is NOT a HUGE advantage to the supercharger because of lag in "most" sledding applications.

Anyone that is unsure of how much "lag" the turbo has is welcome to ride my sled and see for themselves.

Let me ask YOU Jason why do you keep bringing up Lightning Pro? I do NOT need your approval before posting.

 

[spray25]

in the right hands a 250 hp Super charger will smoke a 300 plus HP turbo. Unless the Turbo has no lag. I only know of one out there like that.


LOL

Only in certain situations. Not all situations as your statment implys.

 

[jtssrx]

spray25:

Why do I comment? Because people like you spew misinformation.

Where have I spewed misinformation? Find some posts to back you statement. Besisdes The facts are facts. All turbo’s have lag. "Unless you have a means to build boost before you load the motor by depressing the throttle.

Also, the further you move the Turbo from the intake the longer it take to build boost and make power.

We see this with Neon Phil’s MC. It takes .5 seconds for boost to be made. His would be less but he installed heavy rods and decompressed the motor. The Rear mounts are anywhere from .7 to 1 full second before they boost.

Only in certain situations. Not all situations as your statement implies.

Where did i say "ALL"? I said in the right hands. Plus I assume most people are smart enough to read between the lines. Sorry you didn't get that.

If you have 2 sleds, one is a turbo and one is a super charger. Both are tuned by the same guy. Both sleds make 250hp

The super charger wins every time. Now you add an ignition that Makes boost on the line. Who ever wins at the tree wins every time.

Now you take a 300 hp turbo with a stock ignition verse the 250HP super charger. You get smoked!!!!!!!!!! Add the ignition to the Turbo and you know the result.

Let me ask YOU Jason why do you keep bringing up Lightning Pro

What does me talking about LP "which I don't" Have to do with you talking about Turbo lag??? Stop going back to LP. This topic has nothing to do with them. Hell I don't even work with them anymore. Better yet I don't even own a LP turbo. I sold it.

The fact is I've ridden 3 bender Turbos tuned by professional Racers. All three used NOS to improve there whole shot. You could feel the boost come on well after the whole shot which included NOS until boost came on.

Opinion:

There is NOT a HUGE advantage to the supercharger because of lag in "most" sledding applications

That's your opinion. In my eyes I don't want a sudden burst of power after I hit the throttle. If I could choose 250hp instantly or 300 hp 1 second latter I choose instant power. As a matter of fact I would rather have NOS so if I need a shot I choose when I wanted it. Just so I could ride on a consistent power delivered sled. That's what I liked about the LP it was instant.

The last thing I'll say is I like the Bender, BPE and MC rear mounts. This conversation is about super chargers verse Turbos "not rear mount Turbos".

 

[race24x]

You may be able to tune lag out of a snowmobile clutch but its alot harder in a car or a bike

 

[jtssrx]

Even if you enguaged the sled at 10000 RPM's you wouldn't build boost on the line.

 

[spray25]

Where have I spewed misinformation? Find some posts to back you statement.

Look at the quote in my previous post.

Besisdes The facts are facts. All turbo’s have lag. "Unless you have a means to build boost before you load the motor by depressing the throttle.

See previous post where I said "Turbos do in fact have lag, however, if it is setup properly it is so minimal that it is almost unmeasurable by a layman."

We see this with Neon Phil’s MC. It takes .5 seconds for boost to be made. His would be less but he installed heavy rods and decompressed the motor. The Rear mounts are anywhere from .7 to 1 full second before they boost.

Again "Turbos do in fact have lag, however, if it is setup properly it is so minimal that it is almost unmeasurable by a layman." Key word LAYMAN.

Thank you for helping to prove my point.

Only in certain situations. Not all situations as your statement implies.

Where did i say "ALL"? I said in the right hands. Plus I assume most people are smart enough to read between the lines. Sorry you didn't get that.

Find a dictionary and look up the word "implies". Then go read your statement again. While you are there look up layman.

If you have 2 sleds, one is a turbo and one is a super charger. Both are tuned by the same guy. Both sleds make 250hp

The super charger wins every time. Now you add an ignition that Makes boost on the line. Who ever wins at the tree wins every time.

You did not say 250 vs. 250. You said 250 vs. 300. Nor did you say in a specific type of drag race situation. There are many situations where the extra 50 HP makes a tremendous difference. One such situation is in a hill climb where the loss of 50 HP may mean the difference in the sled even making it to the top much less winning.

Let me ask YOU Jason why do you keep bringing up Lightning Pro

What does me talking about LP "which I don't" Have to do with you talking about Turbo lag??? Stop going back to LP. This topic has nothing to do with them. Hell I don't even work with them anymore. Better yet I don't even own a LP turbo. I sold it.

In your first post on this subject you said:

"In the right hands a 250 hp Super charger will smoke a 300 plus HP turbo. Unless the Turbo has no lag. I only know of one out there like that. "

If you were not referencing LP then who were you referencing? I agree this topic has little to do with LP so why did you bring them up? Why don't you own an LP turbo anymore?

The fact is I've ridden 3 bender Turbos tuned by professional Racers. All three used NOS to improve there whole shot. You could feel the boost come on well after the whole shot which included NOS until boost came on.

I cannot speak to there specific applications or situations, however, your experience differs greatly from mine and many others. Further if you could "feel the boost come one after the hole shot" then that directly contradicts the information you gave above about the lag of .7 to 1 second of lag. Unless of course you were only hitting the button for .5 seconds.

Opinion:

There is NOT a HUGE advantage to the supercharger because of lag in "most" sledding applications

That's your opinion. In my eyes I don't want a sudden burst of power after I hit the throttle. If I could choose 250hp instantly or 300 hp 1 second latter I choose instant power. As a matter of fact I would rather have NOS so if I need a shot I choose when I wanted it. Just so I could ride on a consistent power delivered sled. That's what I liked about the LP it was instant.

Your statement seems to contradict itself. "I don't a want sudden burst of power.......... If I could choose 250hp instantly or 300 hp 1 second later I choose instant power." Please explain what you mean.

I does sound like you are stuck on short drag race scenarios, but I am not sure. While you still have the dictionary handy look up "most" and even try "average" as I maybe should have used that word. The overwhelming majority of sledders do not ride there sleds solely for 600 foot drag races. That was my point since you missed it.

The last thing I'll say is I like the Bender, BPE and MC rear mounts. This conversation is about super chargers verse Turbos "not rear mount Turbos".

I'm glad you like them although if you rode the three Bender setups mentioned above I have no idea why you would. I am well aware of what this conversation is about. Where did I say it was strictly about rear mounts? Please read my comments more carefully in the future.